1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Civilization 5 Rants Thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by ori, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    828
    I'm not so sure. After all, many people requested Giant Death Robots on these forums. The feeling I get is that many people only played Civ as a "sandbox game"... They enjoyed playing mods and used the world builder to create nukes.

    The ones like us, who stayed up all at night, taking notes and doing efficiency calculations, just to be successful in the un-modded game... I'd say we're in the minority.
     
  2. SuperJay

    SuperJay Bending Space and Time

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,273
    Location:
    Shacklyn
    Haha, maybe, maybe. Who knows. That's the funny thing about all this - I was never the hardcore type of Civ4 player; never used a spreadsheet or did any calculations, really... I just liked a deep, immersive, 4X game and I'd grown up playing Civ since the first Civilization came out when I was in junior high. It was never a question of whether to get the latest incarnation, it was CIV!

    My point was more that I think Firaxis is using Civ5 to try and go after the crowd that never played any 4X game at all - maybe never played any TBS game, at all. Ironically, I hope it actually works out that way, b/c at least a big crowd of new Civ players would be something gained for everything that got lost.

    But yeah, good seein you around again. :)
     
  3. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    828
    Ahh memories. I'm a bit younger, I think I was 7 years old when I started playing Civ. I quickly moved up to Emperor (the highest difficulty level if I recall correctly) and got 153%, which I was very proud of.

    Then I got CivNet and played hotseat against my older brothers. I remember that I enjoyed that you could create your own leaderhead.

    When I got older my brother got Civ II... I used to borrow his computer while he was away... There was something wrong with that computer, because the processor occasionally stopped, which was rather annoying when I had conquered several AI cities without saving... :mischief: Luckily, this problem could be solved by giving the computer case a solid kick, which often was enough to revive the processor. Good times. :)

    Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Many of the oldtimers wouldn't be willing to pay for DLC or even use Steam. But the franschise itself is worth a lot of money, so they probably decided that it was time to attract a younger audience. Which I can understand, even though I don't like the fact that they lied to us.
     
  4. RD-BH

    RD-BH Human

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    818
    Location:
    Formerly: Missouri, USA
    ... yeah, coz after a 15 minute adrenaline rush from Starcraft II
    ... ... youngin's need 10 hours cooldown playing Civ 5 ;)
     
  5. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    To be totally honest, Civilization 5 still is a massive disappointment and will likely always be regarded as a failure and the worst iteration of the franchise.

    I'm just waiting on proper modding tools so some talented modders can at least try and salvage what they can from this mass market, casualized dreck.

    For now though, I'll sit back and enjoy the music:


    Link to video.

    Hmmm...Sid Meir even looks a little like Benny Hill. Lol.
     
  6. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Funny story about the New Coke. When Coke went back to the Coca Cola Classic formula, they left one change from the New Coke days intact: using high-fructose corn syrup instead of sugar. This was the single biggest change between the two formulas, and the single biggest cost-cutting measure, and no one complained that "Classic" now had it. Hopefully Civ fans will have a little more of an eye for details than Coke fans.
     
  7. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Read my link I presume?

    Anyway, there is no conspiracy theory with Civilization 5. Long time fans do indeed have an eye for detail and we know what we want. It certainly isn't the casualized, mass market crap that is Civilization 5.
     
  8. Freesmog

    Freesmog Skeptic1938222569

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2007
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    outside the city
    I agree, have not considered trying Civ5 again until a mod fixes the issues, which I don't see happening especially with inadequate modding tools (which I've heard). Still playing Civ4 mods, and with the current Consolitis trend, how could Civ6 be an improvement over Civ5?
     
  9. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2002
    Messages:
    828
    Only until Civ VI comes out...

    I thought Bluebyte ruined Settlers when Settlers III came out, but today I think that game is pretty awesome compared to the new crap they release.

    I thought it was a mistake of Microprose to sell the rights to Railroad Tycoon and I never liked Railroad Tycoon II or III. But when Railroads! came out, those two game suddenly began to look pretty awesome.

    Since Civ has a new fanbase now, there are endless ways to make the game even worse. It's just a question of time until they include units like druids and paladins. And leaders with special powers that can complete quests. I even seriously doubt that the next iteration will be turn-based. Just look at CivWorld. Kids these days have very little patience.
     
  10. uat2d

    uat2d ಠ_ಠ

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2007
    Messages:
    2,727
    Location:
    Final Frontier Listening: House
    "Hurr durr, kids these days are not like the kids from back in the day! :old:"
     
  11. Teagen

    Teagen Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Messages:
    137
    1. Crossbowmen upgrading to riflemen
    -This is incredibly awkward as the upgrades crossbowmen get have no benefit for the rest of the game once they need to become upgraded. For all intents and purposes crossbowmen become totally obsolete once musketmen are available. This is especially hard on England with a UU of the longbowman. It's entirely more beneficial to make a new units with barracks/armory promotions then waste the gold upgrading a crossbowmen.

    2. Turtleships and Ironclads penalized too harshly
    -Korea's turtleships are basically the caraval's version of the ironclad...and they both suck. Losing movespeed and not being able to enter oceans is a horrendous price to pay for a simple combat bonus. What's worse about the turtleship is the caravel is usually the unit that is used to explore the far away world and get NW's so korea is deadlocked to their continent all the way until they can make frigates. Naval combat is never all that important anyway so the combat bonus is rarely if ever noticed much.

    3. UU's with only Combat bonus lose benefits on upgrade, other UU's do not.
    -Musketeers, Ballistas, hopilites, and landsknecht's are the ones that come to mind the most for what i'd call "bland" UU's (not bad UU's). The problem being they retain no advantages of their UU status when upgraded, while other UU's (i'd call "snazzy" UU's) retain their unique upgrades.

    Janissary's and Immortals are a good example of this. Musketeers upgrade into regular riflemen, janissary's upgrade into riflemen with their 25% offense bonus and heal bonus. Hopiltes upgrade into regular pikemen, Immortals upgrade into Pikemen with a double heal rate. It's blatently bias in favor of the unique upgrades!

    4. The AI is mind-numbingly unforgiving.
    -Once you start a war....despite any other factors, once you take a city...you are hated FOREVER. You will NEVER get them off "guarded" for more then a few turns....ever. You can never get another open boarders deal, very difficult to trade luxuries....nothing. It does not matter if you defeated a bully juggernaut bent on taking over the world.....they will hate you for it....for all time. This definately needs change.
     
  12. Iranon

    Iranon Deity Whipping Boy

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,214
    Location:
    Germany
    Kids have no patience and don't respect their elders like we used to. That complaint has been around for thousands of years at least, probably since the start of civilization.

    If looking at mainstream entertainment, intelligence-insulting over-commercialised junk may hav been MORE prevalent 25 years ago.
    Mainstream *gaming* may be in decline because it started catering to a large part of the general population instead of a few enthusiasts... but even that is doubtful. On the upside the larger audience means ever bigger budgets become feasible for pushing technology, and for those still disgusted despite the eye candy there are more great independent titles available than ever before.
     
  13. Grimberht

    Grimberht Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Messages:
    98
    Location:
    Québec
    We simply over think it... its 2k being 2k nothing else.

    They use the "easy marketing" route of buying marquee names, period... there's nothing more to it. The "attract new market argument" is a PR response to the community being mad, not some grand scheme in the franchise development.

    2K buys names because the hype build itself up, they dont have to put resources in making the actual game, they can release their crappy products on the market which is selling itself in presales to a profitable state, then buy another marquee name and repeat. They did not backstab the community, they just never cared about it, they didnt even try to understand... they basically sold us a name and we felt for it. Guys like Shafer, who, I think, really tried to bring the franchise somewhere fresh, just got killed by those people on the "we dont give a "damn" altar".

    As long has companies like 2k will be in business... this wont end. In the long term, this marketing strategy is bond to fail. After that... maybe it will come back to a where it should be. Even if Blizzard isnt perfect, they are an example that business can be very successful while supporting their games and their communities, while on the otherside of the spectrum, there is the 2K's kind who struggles indefinitely to dodge bankruptcy. So there's hope :D

    Until then, I'll go back to occasional lurking, 2k bashing every opportunity I get, CIV 4 and SC2.



    P.S. I think that you guys who are still arguing in hope that it can be saved is really a testament on how the franchise is loved and how deeply we cared about it. You might just be the ones who keep some part of it alive while most of us has sadly, but understandably, fallen to indifference. GJ :goodjob:
     
  14. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    There is no upgrade path for scouts.

    The usefulness of the scout is short lived at the beginning of the game. The promotion path when a scout gains levels is rarely seen because of the limited usefulness as other units upgrade with technology. A possible promotion path might be scout -> hunter -> ranger. They should be less effective than combat troops of a particular era, but be useful in there own right as fog busters, artillery spotters, or to take out soft strategic targets behind enemy lines.
     
  15. MantaRevan

    MantaRevan Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,537
    The scout takes very little to build though. Two turns usually, from the start of the game. You aren't exactly making a huge investment.
     
  16. avdale

    avdale Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2009
    Messages:
    60
    When you are at war with an enemy civ you are automatically declared on by any of their allied city states. However if you make peace with that civ you are still at war with their allied city states until you manually click the button and make peace with them.

    It's one of those minor things which can screw you over in that freak scenario. Going for a cultural victory. Japan and an allied CS right next to me declare on me. Make peace with Japan but forget about the CS. A GA pops in the city Japan was going for. Walking him over to my capital when the city state's lone unit walks over and snipes him.
     
  17. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,219
    Location:
    Sydney
    Moderator Action: Teagen's thread merged.
     
  18. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    This mechanic can also be abused to get a cheesy UN Vote. You can use the AI funds to do it as well.

    1. Sell your resources to the AI for their surplus gold.
    2. Use the proceeds from the sale of your resources to get alliances with the CS.
    3. Declare war on the AI and all of the CS will side with you making it impossible for the AI to buy them out.
    4. Repeat as many times as necessary to get the UN win. You get back all of the resources you sold for gold when you declare war. If you cannot get alliances with all of the CS from the first round of resource selling, just sell the same resources to another AI player and DOW them too (getting back your resources again...rinse...repeat).
     
  19. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    1,922
    Location:
    Orem, UT
    I always love how one person identifies his/herself as all the long-time fans of a series and proceeds to tell me what I want. I didn't want the casualized, mass market crap that is Civ 3, and yet, somehow, Civ 4 got made.
     
  20. bitula

    bitula Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    412
    My problem is though, that modding community for CIV4 is significantly less active (at least it was so 4 or 5 months ago). And why? Because Civ5 has "came to existance". One more reason to hate it... Even if Civ5 is a peace of junk, community modders tend to see it as a new platform and hope for things which may never happen (like source dll). Meanwhile support for Civ4 mods is significantly dropped (for example Fall from Heaven ant its iterations FF, Erebus etc). It always happens so with newer versions of games, I dont know, this is some kind of mental mass malady, people just dont want to return to something older and usually no amount of rationalism will help. I admit I am also at least partially somehow influenced by this mass trend, it simply does not feel good to go back to something "old". Also, Im not sure that Civ5 is less modable, we will have to see after the source code is released, this is why for me everything revolves around the so awaited dll source. It is really the central most important issue. And yes, you are right, full remodding of the game will take very long, probably years, nevertheless, if it will come out that the game is well modable it will eventually happen.
     

Share This Page