Civilization elimination thread

[Buccaneer]

I also have to get back into playing G&K more, so I can have an opinion on the new civs. I played Byzantium and they were boring (nice UU though) but no other new civs showed up randomly.

Addendum: Can someone list the new G&K civs that are left?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Down voted Ethiopia because as a whole I find this civ weak and one of the best if not the best UB cannot save it from their eventual demise. The extra combat strength from his UA is extremely limited and really prevents you from using his UB in a meaningful REX spam, the two just don't work well together.

Don't you think there might be a reason that they made the UA to be so mediocre?

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Arabia 23
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
France 4
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 16
Korea 26
Maya 25
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 18
Roman Empire 15
Russia 15
Siam 17

Been playing a lot of Korea lately and they are strong but i like Babylon more. On higher difficulties the early game is hard for me to make up lost ground on and babylon does it better. but later game Korea really excels with both their UUs and UA when defending. But by then Im sufficiently in tech with Babs to survive for the later game GS push.

I think it's time for France to exit this list. They are interesting to play a few times but I've found it only good for a few types of game play (ICSing is indeed fun with them). And really, the musketeer isnt a good UU, its more of an identifiable silliness thanks to Dumas.

 

[GreekIrish]

The thread seems to be a mixture of how well the civ is played by the AI, how likeable the AI civ is, how fun the civ is, how powerful it is, and how versatile it is (I'm assuming all the warmonger civs will be gone and left with science civs near the end with Arabia, England, China, and maybe Greece).

Yeah, people saying things like, "downvoting Iroquois because I have no interest in them as a civ" is a silly reason to downvote. Same thing with the unique units thread.

 

[Tabarnak]

Arabia 21
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
France 4
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 16
Korea 26
Maya 25
Netherlands 20
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 18
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

Arabia : His biggest downvote is his starting bias. Desert. Great! I can get desert folklore! If it remains available first. If you start with low production center and no forests you will have some difficulties to start the engine. Not always cool to start in deserts.

Russia : The opposite. I often get some nice production spots and +1 from horses and iron tiles(and extra deals) make this civ a nice place to live and raise. Rushes are easier to achieve.

 

[Awsome Sause]

Arabia 21
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
France 4
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 16
Korea 26
Maya 26
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 18
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

Netherlands: I really like polders but there are not really many opportunities to build it. Sea beggars are really good to! There UA though is useless in multiplayer and if i want to play a trading civ i will play Arabia.

Maya: There pyramid is great especially when going very wide. There UU is great for early protection, and there UA really comes in handy to be the first one to enhance a religion or to rush a wonder you really need.

 

[Buccaneer]

Tabarnak, I really think Arabia and its Camels and Bazaars can do wonderfully not starting in a desert.

 

[Monthar]

Arabia 21
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
France 2
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 16
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 18
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

France - Once I got the 3 musketeer achievement I haven't played them unless they happen to be the GotM civ. The only real benefit to their UA, when not going for a culture victory, is being able to get an extra city or two before the increased culture cost outweighs the extra culture. With other victories that increased culture throws off the timing for getting into Rationalism unless you plop down a 5th or 6th city. Besides, it's high time they drop off the list.

Korea - +2 science per specialist and per great person improvement plus good UUs make this a great civ, especially if you go for 4-5 cities. Even if you go a conquering, the puppets will boost your science rate with the UA since they do run merchant specialist.

 

[OmniPotent42]

Arabia 21
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
France 0
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 16
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 19
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 18
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

I will take the honor of delivering the finishing blow to France. Although it's like having a free monument in every city, it's just not good enough to justify as being a UA. Added production to culture buildings would be more interesting than that.

I admit that the Netherlands is a bit situational, but I think they have the best reward for those situations. Who wouldn't like a tile with 5 , 3 and 1? (2 if it's next to a river with Hydro Dam.) Makes every Flood Plains tile a treat. Combine with Petra to make a desert start a dream.

 

[GreekIrish]

Arabia 21
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 16
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17


Persia: My current civ of choice in multiplayer. Get that happiness up and focus on getting multiple golden ages, it works well in FFA going tall and in duels with that combat and movement boost during golden ages.

Netherlands: This was a hard choice, but out of the ones on that list, excluding the Ottomans because I know they're going soon, it ended up being the weakest. Not saying they're bad, but they're the weakest. They rarely start around polders, and they're UA is okay, but there are much better ways to get happiness. I will say that their unique unit is fantastic on sea maps. edit: I guess when you spawn on a desert heavy land with food plains, it could be nice, but with a grassland bias, I have never had that happen.

 

[pensivepeppers]

Arabia 22 (+1)
Aztecs 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 26
Inca 30
Iroquois 14 (-2)
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

Point to my friend Harun because even if there's start bias you may not get to, their UU is one of the best, if not the best, and their UB is also good enough to compensate for little or no use from their UA.

Minus to Iroquois because they are far too situational. Your whole abilities depend on if you start in or near forest/jungle.

(Side note: Luv the siggy OmniPotent, the Bible even references that alcohol is a no-no <3)

 

[emblemfire]

Arabia 22
Aztecs 13
Babylon 27
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 26
Inca 28
Iroquois 14
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

Babylon is sooo powerful when it comes to science. The incans just run away from battle and ruin my life.

 

[Algeroth]

Arabia 22
Aztecs 15
Babylon 27
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 24
Inca 28
Iroquois 14
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 17
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

I know that we are running off bad civs, but how can the Aztec be so low? Their UU is good for early rush and have some nice promotion worth keeping for later units, UB is wonderful for builders and UU give the an edge when they are fighting and has perfect flavor?

OTH, I never liked when civ have two UU from same era, it makes too much one hit wonder. And while the UA of Greece was strong in vanilla, in G&K influence is easier to come by.

 

[Buccaneer]

I know that we are running off bad civs, but how can the Aztec be so low? Their UU is good for early rush and have some nice promotion worth keeping for later units, UB is wonderful for builders and UU give the an edge when they are fighting and has perfect flavor?

Because they do not make good opponents?

 

[Loucypher]

Arabia 22
Aztecs 15
Babylon 27
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 22
Inca 28
Iroquois 14
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

While Greece is undeniably strong, they get my downvote because they aren't really interesting to play as and both their UU's are forgettable, to say the least. Their UA is definitely nice but feels cheap under certain circumstances.

Upvoting Netherlands as they still are IMO the best economic powerhouse (Better then Arabia early game, Post-Economics-Polders let them catch up post-bazaar) and they have a great navy too.

 

[theguy8882]

Arabia 22
Aztec 13
Babylon 27
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 22
Inca 29
Iroquois 14
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

The Aztecs are still the worst civ here, they don't have anything I like.

the Inca are big economic powerhouses, and the no movement negative on hills is great. The only thing I don't like is the slinger.

 

[PhilBowles]

Because they do not make good opponents?

I generally find the Aztecs middling as an AI - rarely strong, but not often bottom of the pile.

 

[Buccaneer]

I generally find the Aztecs middling as an AI - rarely strong, but not often bottom of the pile.

Would you put any of the remaining civs below them on the competitive scale?

 

[Villager720]

Arabia 22
Aztec 13
Babylon 25
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 22
Inca 29
Iroquois 15
Korea 27
Maya 26
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

Iroquois are only situational if you turn off start bias, which makes half the Civs here situational. Looking at you Inca. So assuming its on, theyll thrive most of the times.

Babylon...Archers dont last as long as before, beefy walls are nice but not great, but only getting Scientists (which have been nerfed) is a negative in my book.

 

[DGDobrev]

Arabia 22
Aztec 13
Babylon 26
Carthage 20
China 24
England 21
Ethiopia 8
Greece 22
Inca 29
Iroquois 15
Korea 25
Maya 26
Netherlands 18
Ottoman Empire 5
Persia 19
Roman Empire 15
Russia 16
Siam 17

So, vote for the day - and this time I give it with 200% conviction that it's true. Over the last 4 days I spent more than 16 hours (yeah, I am crazy) trying to get Korea to perform well on Deity. I regularly went for a Liberty-Tradition opening with a view for a jump to Rationalism later on. I picked every time Messenger of the Gods for more Beakers too. All of the playthroughs have shown something simple:
- No second city before NC!!! Plant a second and it will destroy your tech advances because you need to build a Library there first and then continue with NC. This squarely means no second city till around T50-55 (if you beeline Pottery-Writing-Calendar-Philosophy and have good production), by which time any AI has planted between 4 and 6. If you spawn in a dense neighborhood, you will barely have any place to settle a second city yourself, as you will most probably have to fend off 1-2 attacks anyway.
- Bad starting location = No go. On Deity, you need luxuries to provide happiness for you, and even more to sell to the AI to cover for the tons of stuff it gets as a bonus. With a poor starting location and poor city placement options, you will find yourself with one very unhappy nation even with only 2 cities. I had a loc with 1 copper, 1 Marble and 3 Wine, near river but no mountain, and it was difficult as hell to keep the people happy, forcing me to keep a copy of the resources just to stay a few points above zero.
- Oxford University for quick Renaissance? You wish. It is highly unlikely you will manage to somehow time the construction of the universities in all your 3-4 cities with your next policy.
- The slow tech advances in the beginning, means you get beat to almost any wonder on maps with 8 civs or more. GL and ToA are usually constructed between T26 and T37, HG around T40-45, and Petra around T60. During this time you will still be struggling on Deity to get the NC and maybe manage to costruct the Oracle, which is still a great achievement, as it gives you +1 GS point. And at any start, pray that Ramesses isn't there - he will beat you to the PT with a 99% certainty.

On the other side, Babylon gets a quick tech boost which allows them to get at least 2 of the early Wonders. I had a ToA + Petra + Oracle start and it was awesome. Allowed me to time Oxford with Compass and get Astronomy for free and get Rationalism on the next turn which allowed for even greater beaker boost - even better if you have some stashed gold and you can buy the Observatory. Korea in my opinion, can never beat that. That is the biggest advantage of Babylon - being tech independent and managing to stay on par with Deity AI early in the game - with a single city if necessary. You can always expand after you hit Renaissance - go to a secluded island if necessary - you have Astronomy, so you can embark and move anywhere.