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Civilization elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Bakspatel, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. cman2010

    cman2010 King

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2010
    Messages:
    740
    yeah I dont get this at all I wonder what lvl he plays at, I cant think of many reasons not to trade excess lux.
     
  2. Bandersnatching

    Bandersnatching Warlord

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    Messages:
    248
    Babylon 13
    China 7
    Inca 25 -2 = 23
    Korea 20
    Maya 5 +1 = 6

    Ayup.
    Maya: +1, for reasons described so often before. UB is probably better than China's and comparable to the Incan UI - sometimes better, sometimes worse, but unlike the terrace farm is always useful in every city.
    Inca: let's topple the monarchy, people. Sure, Inca rocks, but I would like to see the winner win without such a large score gap.
     
  3. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    If the mountain's in a desert, it counts as desert. Petra works with Natural Wonders on the same basis, even though the tile won't say "Desert, Mt Sinai" or whatever, but just "Mt Sinai".
     
  4. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
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    5,020
    Seems quite a reasonable reason to eliminate it - it got this far mostly because of that gimmick rather than because of any inherent strength; the Camel Archer may have helped, but other civs that really only have a strong UU to sell themselves on went some time ago (except China).

    EDIT: I agree that not trading resources when you have excess is odd, but someone who doesn't has reasonable grounds for not finding anything to appeal in Arabia. And those who don't want to trade lump sums of gold for luxes for very specific rushbuys at certain points in the game can't be blamed for finding Arabia underwhelming for an economic civ, while just trading luxes for happiness makes Arabia serviceable but nowhere close to the top 5.
     
  5. Tachii

    Tachii Procrastinator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2012
    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Babylon 13
    China 8
    Inca 21
    Korea 20
    Maya 6

    Indeed, let's not make an one-sided game for the champion. Downvoted purely for being ahead Korea (still) and everybody else by far. Also because I don't want Incas to win #1. Powerful civ, very, but I always liked civs with great UUs to use. Sadly they're almost all gone except for the obscene power Korea's Kwacha and CKN - probably my favourite and most powerful UU in the game. Logistics would beat range anyday. Just because a gatling gun can do equally well without that +1 from range comparatively speaking. In the front line with logistic it will decimate everyone in that era until great war infantry. And even then it will blow them pretty damn well to half HP and then some.

    I also think it's great China in Civ5 seem to be made for a domination victory with few core cities and a tooon of puppet cities. Puppets will prioritize Paper Maker more, Forbidden Palace seem also willing to support this idea, and CKNs + the GG bonus can effectively minimize whatever their weaker strength were. Heroic epic might actually seem a good idea especially if you only build 2-3 cities. With CKN getting another 15% bonus, sweeeeet mother of god.
     
  6. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Essen, Germany
    Babylon 14
    China 8
    Inca 21
    Korea 20
    Maya 4

    Time to give my daily portion of love to Babylon for the all kinds of reasons I managed to conjure up (EDIT: and employ!) by now - versatility, early game power, ability to go for any victory (it's awful to have a culture-oriented UA and have Babylon in the game who steals all your important projects just because they got there first) and employ any kind of strategy.

    I am going to hit the Mayans today. Even though they are a good civ, having a jack of all trades but master of none is kind of a problem. You get all kinds of goodies with the Mayans - good starting location, easier to defend (Incans tend get a better one with more luxuries usually), lots of GP's of all kinds - but in the end, the ability to follow a specific mindset escapes me. You don't really get the feel of streamlining a strategy towards a certain goal... You just get various kinds of GP after a certain period of time - regardless whether you want it or not.
    EDIT: I am saying this with a bit of a heavy heart - when I started playing Civ 5, I thought the mayans are awesome, cause they are guaranteed to get GP regardless of the situation. Oh well... Those days are long gone... Still a great civ for player who just start to get acquainted with Civ5 or G&K. I learned the ropes with them too.
     
  7. draaibaar

    draaibaar Warlord

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    home
    Babylon 14
    China 8
    Inca 22
    Korea 18
    Maya 4

    Inca: it's play tickle's my imagination
    Korea: not.
     
  8. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Babylon 14
    China 9 (+1)
    Inca 20 (-2)
    Korea 18
    Maya 4

    China FTW. Warmongering is fun, and few do it better. The Papermaker is a nice bonus, especially when the AI puts it in all my puppets (while other civs do not get Libraries in their puppets as often)

    Inca just doesn't excite me. Maybe I like more variety than just hills next to mountains.
     
  9. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    797
    Babylon 12 (-2)
    China 9
    Inca 21 (+1)
    Korea 18
    Maya 4

    The Incas are so much fun to play, and their armies are hard to get to given their quick pace over hills. No maintainance cost on hill-based roads is pretty big, an easily underestimated bonus really.
    Babylon is just dull. Poop out great scientists - ??? - Win. Yeah, dull.
     
  10. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    27,104
    Location:
    Sydney
    Babylon 13
    China 9
    Inca 21
    Korea 18
    Maya 2

    Dull though Babylon may seem, massive early science boost is massive. I like leading in tech. I'm not so convinced by the Mayans, despite the potential for the same sort of early-ish boost.
     
  11. drakar8888

    drakar8888 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Babylon 13
    China 10
    Inca 21
    Korea 16
    Maya 2

    I have decided I would give my full support to China to win the whole thing. Best unit in the game with great synergy with the paper maker -early gpt allows you the have a larger archer army ready to upgrade to ckns without going negative gold. Even better synergy with the great general buff.

    And Koreans are going down. I am on the Babs side of the "who is the science top-dog" debate.
     
  12. animalguy

    animalguy Ermahgerd

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    277
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    Babylon 11 (-2)
    China 10
    Inca 21
    Korea 17 (+1)
    Maya 2

    Babylon: As I have said before just dull, great for science vc but that is it!

    Korea: Unlike Babylon can be adapted to an vc because every game you will plant GP and work some specalist slots
     
  13. Lord_Loffen

    Lord_Loffen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2009
    Messages:
    9
    Babylon 11
    China 11
    Inca 19
    Korea 17
    Maya 2

    China: Awesome for warmongering with the UU, and the UB is simply loveable.
    Inca:Altough a very strong civ, for one reason, they does not appeal to me...
     
  14. duhu

    duhu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    lol, Arabia's not that special. They get +1 gold from trade routes, that's like a handful of extra gold. Not really much. Although I do love that unique Market they have. Double Oil sounds nice, but it's not really a dealbreaker. Some City States carry a crap ton of it, and with the extra gold Arabia gets, allying with these City States will give you more than enough. And I don't think Camel Archer's are that special, either. They get no defensive bonuses and they're in an era when cavalry becomes obsolete.

    Personally, I'd prefer Russia's double iron/horse/uranium (which is much more rarer than oil) and their production bonuses.
     
  15. Avatan

    Avatan Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2010
    Messages:
    271
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    France
    Babylon 11
    China 11 + 1 = 12
    Inca 19
    Korea 17
    Maya 2 - 2 = 0

    Well I did it, I killed maya, one of my favorite civ. It's in my top 5, but just not in my top 4.

    All o the rest I will gladly see winning this thing. Upvote for china as I feel they might go next and it would add some diversity to the top 3 among the science civ. Plus as Mesix pointed out, a gold making library that is prioritized by puppet is just awesome. Don't get me started on the UU/UA neither!
     
  16. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    797
    I agree that Babylon is definitely strong, don't get me wrong. But they don't lend themselves to ANY playstyle other then "Poop out science". A lot like Korea, but they have a few other tricks at least. Its not as dull as some other Civs that are long eliminated, but yeah.
    And that's the beauty of this voting. Sheer strength is not all that matters.
     
  17. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Essen, Germany
    Wow... that's not entirely correct. Early bowmen rush can easily kill an opponent who wasn't clever enough to settle on a hill and build walls (and even then it's not certain thanks to Bab's buffed up Archers) - this may not happen on Deity, but still gives you a good start. Being ahead on the tech curve means you can crank out better units. In addition to that, leading in tech means you can build any wonder sooner than the others - you can still get a bonus to wonder building with policies, marble and pantheon.

    You just gotta try it :) It is a misconception that Babylon is all science. It is science that helps the other aspects of the game, should you decide to use them.

    EDIT: here's two warmonger Babylon tactics to try:

    1. Up to King: crank out bowmen, tech to Philosophy and build NC for tech boost, and then go down to the military side of the tech tree where all the units are. You will be able to wage war, get Crossbowmen fast, and upgrade to Rifles before the others thanks to NC. It is wicked fighting the AI's stupid swordsmen with riflemen already.
    2. Up to Immortal: turtle in the early game with Bowmen, tech to Education, build some tech to give yourself plenty BPT and then go to the lower part of the tech tree. You will gain ground quickly and start cranking out gunpowder units in no time.

    As far as policies are concerned, you only need to decide when do you want to wage the war. Do you want to tech up first or just try doing it right away? Babylon always gets to Rifles and Cannons first if played properly. If you want to do it right away, just play like Egypt's chariot rush and start with the enemy cities on flat ground while teching up in the meantime, and upgrade as necessary. You can easily employ the Rationalism jump for late warfare or a Liberty-Honor opening for some early wargames.

    EDIT 2: Deity warfares are difficult, cause the AI gets a lot of stuff cheated in, BUT... as soon as you manage to get an AI opponent scared of your military, they will simply give you almost all of their gold and luxuries. When that happens, you just gained the upper hand. Now upgrade everything, buy buildings for more BPT and keep going. I had a game where Austria bought me off the war with 12k gold. Suffice it to say that in just one turn, my GPT, BPT and Military might skyrocketed :D
     
  18. Algeroth

    Algeroth 8 and 1/2

    Joined:
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    1,466
    Location:
    Прага
    +1, the only victory that isn't easy for Babylon is Culture victory.
     
  19. DGDobrev

    DGDobrev Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2010
    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Essen, Germany
    I do agree however, that playing the same civ over and over gets boring with time. I should really return to some of my earlier favorites like Inca (great start bias), China (love the paper maker and CKN), Egypt (wonders + early game power FTW), and Aztecs (Honor + UA means free policies without building an early culture building which allows you to focus on other things)...

    But for now, it is hard to dismiss Bab's power and versatility - cause the sooner you get medieval, the better :)
     
  20. Infiltrator

    Infiltrator Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Babylon 11
    China 13
    Inca 17
    Korea 17

    Out of the top 4 I really can't see Inca belonging there. Boring to no end for me.

    China on the other hand is able to adapt to most situations, while being the best warmonger out of the 4 on the list.
     

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