[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Republic of San Montuoso]

He's boring? That's a personal opinion, yes, but there's simply nothing about him I find interesting. He's also been done to death: he's been in what, five Civ games now? I'd frankly rather have his nephew if we must have a Napoleon; at least he'd be novel.

As someone who hates Napoleon, I can say that he can be made a fun leader in Civ 6. I already thought about it and, based upon how a lot of how many great french engineer schools came with Napoleon (because he has the insight that engineers are very useful during war) I came with this LUA:

"Grande Ecole - Additional to their usual ability, each Great Scientist and Great Engineer acts like a Great General (+5 Combat Strength and +1 Movement to land units within 2 tiles). Military Academies produce +1 Great Scientist and Great Engineer points, and +1 additional Science and Production."
Something like that is the only way I would possibly play Napoleon. Any other way would probably be only flat bonuses towards combat, and it's unfun.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

As someone who hates Napoleon, I can say that he can be made a fun leader in Civ 6. I already thought about it and, based upon how a lot of how many great french engineer schools came with Napoleon (because he has the insight that engineers are very useful during war) I came with this LUA:

"Grande Ecole - Additional to their usual ability, each Great Scientist and Great Engineer acts like a Great General (+5 Combat Strength and +1 Movement to land units within 2 tiles). Military Academies produce +1 Great Scientist and Great Engineer points, and +1 additional Science and Production."
Something like that is the only way I would possibly play Napoleon. Any other way would probably be only flat bonuses towards combat, and it's unfun.

I feel like Napoleon would basically play like Bolivar tbh, as would any General-turn-leader.

 

[Zaarin]

that’s what I said...

Yes, but you said it's fine, and I said it's not.

As someone who hates Napoleon, I can say that he can be made a fun leader in Civ 6. I already thought about it and, based upon how a lot of how many great french engineer schools came with Napoleon (because he has the insight that engineers are very useful during war) I came with this LUA:

"Grande Ecole - Additional to their usual ability, each Great Scientist and Great Engineer acts like a Great General (+5 Combat Strength and +1 Movement to land units within 2 tiles). Military Academies produce +1 Great Scientist and Great Engineer points, and +1 additional Science and Production."
Something like that is the only way I would possibly play Napoleon. Any other way would probably be only flat bonuses towards combat, and it's unfun.

I'd play it. I still wouldn't like that it was Napoleon.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I feel like Napoleon would basically play like Bolivar tbh, as would any General-turn-leader.

The difference is Bolivar earns his Commandante Generals passively. Napoleon would have to turn his civ towards science and production to have a benefit from them. It would nicely play science/domination rather than just "domination for science" (ala Civ5 Assyria) or "science for domination" (ala anybody).

 

[PhilBowles]

Once you build the Trojan Horse you can't move it, but can only place it in an enemy city by giving it as a gift to that city's owner.

 

[Haig]

I read that Kublai Khan invaded Vietnam, and was faced against the Trung sisters.

I think this settles the content of Pack #5.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I read that Kublai Khan invaded Vietnam, and was faced against the Trung sisters.

I think this settles the content of Pack #5.

He was also repulsed from invading Japan by Hojo. Also, the Trung sisters were 1200 years before Kublai.

 

[DWilson]

I read that Kublai Khan invaded Vietnam, and was faced against the Trung sisters.

I think this settles the content of Pack #5.

That was actually the prince Trần Hưng Đạo, alongside the emperor of Vietnam Trần Nhân Tông

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Yes, but you said it's fine, and I said it's not.


I'd play it. I still wouldn't like that it was Napoleon.

i meant having gilgamesh be the leader is fine

 

[Zaarin]

i meant having gilgamesh be the leader is fine

Like Qin Shi Huang, he's very safe, which makes both of them stand out among Civ6's more daring choices.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

The one thing that would sadden me a little if Kubilai Khan is an alt leader for China and Mongolia is that Qin Shi Huang and Kubilai Khan were already the two leader for China in Civ IV.

Having the same leader representing the same civ from iteration to iteration is already kind of sad, but two times exactly the same leaders? Especially for China, one of the country/culture/civilization that truly had one of the most rich and long history of all?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

He was also repulsed from invading Japan by Hojo. Also, the Trung sisters were 1200 years before Kublai.

I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him a malus for naval combat. He also failed at taking Indonesia.

The one thing that would sadden me a little if Kubilai Khan is an alt leader for China and Mongolia is that Qin Shi Huang and Kubilai Khan were already the two leader for China in Civ IV.

Kublai Khan never lead China in Civ IV. He was an alternate leader for Mongolia.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him a malus for naval combat. He also failed at taking Indonesia.

In that case, the Yuan admiral was played for a fool by the founder of the Majapahit Empire. The previous kingdom failed to pay its tribute, then succumbed to a civil war. When the Yuan fleet showed up, one of the rebels "volunteered" to guide the navy and direct them against their "enemies" which conveniently happened to be his rivals. He tricked them into installing him as the new ruler.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Like Qin Shi Huang, he's very safe, which makes both of them stand out among Civ6's more daring choices.

Gilgamesh is a perfect fit for Civ 6's Big Personalities theme though. Any other leader for Sumeria would have been a very obscure choice - hopefully Civ 7 will finally see Gudea or someone else carry the torch.

As for Qin, this is the first installment in which he's the standalone Chinese leader and... it was about time that he was to be honest. Now for some Ming or Han representation in future games (or expansions) and we'll get there eventually.

 

[Piranga]

When it comes to the next civs released, I only have one important civ I need in the game, the Babylonians. I'de be incredibly disappointed if they don't return. They're too civ (franchise) historic for me, not to have included. I will never forget watching a friend play as them trying to teach me the game. I was instantly hooked into the series.

After that I'm just hoping for a few of the front runners, Byzantines and Portugal. Any civs after that, I have no real preference.

For an alternate leader I would like an ancient Egyptian. Though I don't expect it.

 

[Zaarin]

Gilgamesh is a perfect fit for Civ 6's Big Personalities theme though. Any other leader for Sumeria would have been a very obscure choice - hopefully Civ 7 will finally see Gudea or someone else carry the torch.

Have you seen how many statues Gudea had made of himself, alongside great proclamations of humility in his decrees? That was a man with a big personality, a veritable Ramesses among Sumerians. Choices like CdM in place of the much more obvious Louis XIV suggests Firaxis is capable of more than pop culture appeal when they put their minds to it.

As for Qin, this is the first installment in which he's the standalone Chinese leader and... it was about time that he was to be honest. Now for some Ming or Han representation in future games (or expansions) and we'll get there eventually.

TBH if we could have a do over I think they should have chosen Qin Shi Huangdi for Civ5 and Wu Zetian for Civ6. They would have made more sense for those respective rosters.

 

[Morningcalm]

We can look anywhere for just about anything.

Anyway we both agree Egypt deserved an alt.

Some religion bonus candidates are better than others. Akhenaten in my view only makes sense as someone who gets religion bonuses at the expense of happiness, military, and diplomacy. He was an incompetent pharaoh over-praised for his Aten.

Since we have the Maya that have an incentive to settle where there isn't potable water, I'd say Akhenaton surprisingly became more likely

Maya had dams and reservoirs and other complex water storage systems to assist. Akhenaten gave his people saline water in the capital instead.

There was backlash in Korea regarding Seondeok as leader. If it affected sales meaningfully, I could see them attempting to "fix it" with a more popular leader given how large a market they are. They are a business after all. But this is of course speculation.

I just hope it isn't Scotland. I'm fine with the Netherlands, Mongolia and Korea. India already has two leaders and Zulu, Georgia, Cree and Mapuche aren't getting a second one.

The backlash came from a vocal minority of sexists. Many other Koreans love Seondeok, and there is a well known Korean drama based on her too. I suggest Firaxis not cater to the sexists with another Korean leader.

Mongolia has a worthy secondary leader in Mandukhai the Wise anyhow (and she’s never been featured in Civ, AND is popular among Mongolians).

 

[Casworon]

I would totally be down for a mythology spin off of Civ. I loved age of mythology and have been really surprised that the mythology theme is one that has been explored by gaming so little. I infinitely prefer it to tolkienesque fantasy. It can also be so much more varied as humanity has come up with some incredible mythologies. You can make strong arguments that tolkienesque fantasy is just a spin off of northern European mythology to begin with.

I am liking the suggestions of Egypt getting an alternative leader. Its that rise and fall requirement that is making it look very likely to be Mongolia though

 

[Morningcalm]

I would totally be down for a mythology spin off of Civ. I loved age of mythology and have been really surprised that the mythology theme is one that has been explored by gaming so little. I infinitely prefer it to tolkienesque fantasy. It can also be so much more varied as humanity has come up with some incredible mythologies. You can make strong arguments that tolkienesque fantasy is just a spin off of northern European mythology to begin with.

I am liking the suggestions of Egypt getting an alternative leader. Its that rise and fall requirement that is making it look very likely to be Mongolia though

Agreed! King Arthur, Theseus, Gilgamesh, and others could be the mythology-based leaders, and there could be cool uses of magic and RPG elements for heroic quests, etc. Fall from Heaven in Civ IV was a nice glimpse at what a fantasy Civ game might look like too, and it was featured in Beyond the Sword as part of that expansion pack.

Agreed Mongolia seems more likely. For better or ill, Kublai Khan is popular in these forums based on recognition, but he failed almost all of his foreign wars (including vs. Hojo Tokimune, who is in the game).

 

[Zaarin]

I infinitely prefer it to tolkienesque fantasy.

As an enormous Tolkien nerd, it's my duty to point out that very little "Tolkienesque fantasy" even remotely resembles Tolkien. I really think the term should be changed to "Gygaxesque fantasy."

You can make strong arguments that tolkienesque fantasy is just a spin off of northern European mythology to begin with.

More to the point, Tolkien was trying to create a mythology for England, whom he thought were lacking a native mythology comparable to those of the Welsh (who have Arthur) or the French (who have Charlemagne) or the Norse (who have Norse mythology) or the Finns (who have the Kalevela) or the Greeks, etc.

For better or ill, Kublai Khan is popular in these forums based on recognition, but he failed almost all of his foreign wars (including vs. Hojo Tokimune, who is in the game).

There's more to being a good leader than winning wars. Kublai promoted cultural exchange, religious tolerance, and foreign trade.