[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Washington gets extra credit for being an incredibly successful president in a time when we didn't know what a president should look like. He set many of our precedents, and it's very hard to be sure our system would have stabilized so successfully had he not taken such a careful and measured approach to the presidency.
 
Okay I'm gonna try to redirect this a bit.

Hypothetical:

DLC pack was just revealed.

We don't get Kublai Khan, but instead James leading Scotland and England. We now have three English leaders and three-ish French leaders.

What emotions are you feeling?
A bit of sadness that China doesn't get a new leader despite deserving one, followed by thinking of what new could he bring to England and Scotland. I guess I'd start reading up about his reign to learn what possible abilities could he have.
 
I dunno I don't hear people on the streets talking about how great Teddy Roosevelt is, it just doesn't feel super relevant. Choosing any president who isn't Lincoln, Washington or FDR is just being a bit cute/cheeky. But instead of getting one of them we are gonna get some rando leader for some rando country I bet...
Teddy has an overwhelmingly positive reputation in the US; I can't think of a president who better represents the American can-do attitude at the turn of the century. Washington is always a safe choice, having been mythologized almost to the point of divinity or at least sainthood. Lincoln's reputation is generally positive but not without criticism, though he's generally popular with the general audience. FDR, however, was controversial when he was president, and he's still controversial nearly a century later.

We don't get Kublai Khan, but instead James leading Scotland and England. We now have three English leaders and three-ish French leaders.

What emotions are you feeling?
Pleased that a fascinating historical figure made it in (assuming we're talking about James I and VI, not James II :p ), but sorely disappointed that the alt leader went to civs that really didn't need it.
 
Out of the returning civilizations, I think the Assyrian, the Byzantine, the Moroccan and the Portuguese are the most likely.
  1. The Assyrian and the Moroccan fill a gap, the latter filling the African map and as Muslim civilization. Great.
  2. The Byzantine, I don't know: we already have 3 greek leaders, 1 roman and 1 ottoman leader that pretented to be the continuation of the Roman empire. I hope this do not prevent them to appear. Or at least, give us "Justinian I also leads the Roman Empire" as the Byzantine saw themselves as Roman.
  3. The Portuguese, I don't know either. Philip II present himself as "King of Spain and Portugal", which kind of sending the message that Portugal isn't going to make it.
  4. Special mention for the Hittites. Maybe we are going to see them! Same for the Babylonian: even if it is the same area than Sumerian, the era is different. We also saw them together in a previous game.
I pretty much agree with these statements. I'm not too sure about Morocco because Fez was just introduced as a city-state in GS. But then again North Africa is pretty empty. Phillip II saying he is the "King of Portugal" is probably only flavorful. Alexander presents himself as Pharaoh and general of Greece.

Okay I'm gonna try to redirect this a bit.

Hypothetical:

DLC pack 5 was just revealed.

We don't get Kublai Khan, but instead James leading Scotland and England. We now have three English leaders and three-ish French leaders.

What emotions are you feeling?
Does he also lead Ireland who is the new Civ in the pack as well? :rolleyes:
 
Has there ever been a case in any Civ game where two civilizations had represented almost the same geographical area?

I'm just curious because some here are discounting Siam and Vietnam as upcoming new civs due to their proximity with the Khmer.
 
Pleased that a fascinating historical figure made it in (assuming we're talking about James I and VI, not James II :p ), but sorely disappointed that the alt leader went to civs that really didn't need it.

I think Scotland's a serious consideration as a civ that could use an alternate leader, but James VI wouldn't be my first choice - rather I'd expect Calgacus (fictitious as he probably was) or someone else who could be chosen as a representation of "Celtic" Scotland to satisfy players who still feel that "The Celts" are (a) missing and (b) desirable.

For all of Kublai's fanbase, is there any real "need" for a new Mongol or Chinese leader? Qin makes sense for China and Genghis is obviously characteristic for the Mongols, and I don't think either civ is bad.

Has there ever been a case in any Civ game where two civilizations had represented almost the same geographical area?

I'm just curious because some here are discounting Siam and Vietnam as upcoming new civs due to their proximity with the Khmer.

Every game that's had Byzantium alongside the Ottomans and Greece, as well as those that have had Assyria or Sumer alongside Babylon. EDIT: And, much as I try to forget, there's the ridiculous HRE civ in Civ IV, which obviously exhibits essentially complete overlap with Germany.

Siam is out for reasons other than proximity, and was explicitly described as a replacement for the Khmer if I recall correctly in Civ V. The Civ V incarnation (properly called Sukothai) was a civ that emerged as a successor to the Khmer Empire in the same broad time period, and with a very similar culture, architecture and indeed love of elephant UUs.

Both Khmer and Civ VI's version of Indonesia are medieval civs - there's no reason to add a third medieval SE Asian civ that would share the same broad architecture set. I say this as a lover of SE Asian history and, indeed, the medieval period was the heyday for Southeast Asian civs - but it's a comparatively small geographic area in which to insert three medieval Indian-derived cultures (and no others).

Vietnam is much more likely - it has more time periods to choose from (Thailand does indeed have later periods they can use, including the era when it was actually known to outsiders as Siam, but that wouldn't be the civ people are presumably asking for as Siam - i.e. the Civ V version), with a relatively modern period seeming favoured by a lot of people requesting it (although, conversely, they could go with Classical era Vietnam, the era of the Trung Sisters), and with a corresponding variety of approaches that can be taken with it. Vietnam was rarely as prominent as the other Southeast Asian civs were in their heyday, but it has a much older, broadly continuous history as a unitary state (or at least a series of states within the country's modern borders) than any of the others, with the Champa and Khmer periods being the main interruption.

It also represents the major Chinese-influenced culture in Southeast Asia, while the others have affinities with India.
 
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Alexander presents himself as Pharaoh and general of Greece.

Alexander just built a nice city on the Mediterranean Coast in Egypt - named after him, of course - and then appointed a Macedonian Governor and rode off East to conquer the Persian Heartlands and India, and, as far as I know, never returned to Egypt after his brief stay.
 
I think Scotland's a serious consideration as a civ that could use an alternate leader, but James VI wouldn't be my first choice - rather I'd expect Calgacus (fictitious as he probably was) or someone else who could be chosen as a representation of "Celtic" Scotland to satisfy players who still feel that "The Celts" are (a) missing and (b) desirable.

I'm not fond of fictitious leaders in the game. Gilgamesh and Dido are already on my List of Least Favourites, in significant part due to that fact.
 
Okay I'm gonna try to redirect this a bit.

Hypothetical:

DLC pack 5 was just revealed.

We don't get Kublai Khan, but instead James leading Scotland and England. We now have three English leaders and three-ish French leaders.

What emotions are you feeling?

What do you call that feeling when you are disappointed, but in a way that is surprising?
 
What do you call that feeling when you are disappointed, but in a way that is surprising?

I assume "shock and horror," are a bit too hyperbolic for what you're looking for? :P
 
I assume "shock and horror," are a bit too hyperbolic for what you're looking for? :p

The Civ designers have ceased to shock me with their choices, only to find new ways to disappoint me that I didn't expect. (and to be fair, to delight me with their choices as well, I'm not hating!)
 
I'm not fond of fictitious leaders in the game. Gilgamesh and Dido are already on my List of Least Favourites, in significant part due to that fact.

Nor am I, but Firaxis have demonstrated they're willing to do so (and indeed have now doubled down by adding fictional Natural Wonders back into the game and a nonsensical interpretation of meteor showers). I think Scotland getting a 'Celtic' leader is desirable to a portion of the fanbase - there are historical post-Roman Pictish kings they can use instead, I just didn't know about them until I looked up the Picts just now.

I haven't seen the usual "England is too weak" threads spamming the forum that seemed to characterise Civ VI's early years, so I presume the civ is now in a reasonable spot and not in need of excess leaders, but I wouldn't rule out a new Scottish leader.

I agree with others that thematically if nothing else Egypt is in most need of a new leader, and Firaxis has used alternate leaders in the past to satisfy fans unhappy with a default choice (with the first alternate leader being Chandragupta). But as has been argued, it doesn't make obvious sense for a new Egyptian leader to need Rise and Fall (and not "Rise and Fall or Gathering Storm") even though Egypt is a good candidate for a civ that plays with the Golden Age mechanic perhaps a bit more creatively than we've seen before.
 
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Please no, not another European alt-leader. If ever I would rather have an alt leader for Egypt, China, or Korea instead.

If the last alt leader slot was European, I'd be really happy if it were Russian, either Olga of Kiev or Ivan the Terrible would be nice choices for me, and I wouldn't complain. But if I were to choose, I'd say that Egypt is the one that is most desperately in need of an alt leader at the moment, I particularly think that the game needs a pharaoh. But Kublai Khan leading either China or Mongolia is good too and I don't complain, it just wouldn't be my first choice.
 
Has there ever been a case in any Civ game where two civilizations had represented almost the same geographical area?

I'm just curious because some here are discounting Siam and Vietnam as upcoming new civs due to their proximity with the Khmer.
I don't see many people discounting Vietnam. They are probably the most likely due to the large fanbase wanting them and as mentioned before they have a more Sinosphere influence than the rest of Southeast Asia, which the Khmer influenced heavily with Siam being one of them.

I think if they wanted to make Siam possible they could have given the Khmer a Baray unique infrastructure instead of the Prasat. The term Prasat is used in Thai as well and represents the cultural impact that the Khmer had over all of mainland South East Asia. At least that's how I look at it.



Alexander just built a nice city on the Mediterranean Coast in Egypt - named after him, of course - and then appointed a Macedonian Governor and rode off East to conquer the Persian Heartlands and India, and, as far as I know, never returned to Egypt after his brief stay.
I was just referencing his ingame greeting quote, regardless whether he actually stayed.
 
If the last alt leader slot was European, I'd be really happy if it were Russian, either Olga of Kiev or Ivan the Terrible would be nice choices for me, and I wouldn't complain. But if I were to choose, I'd say that Egypt is the one that is most desperately in need of an alt leader at the moment, I particularly think that the game needs a pharaoh. But Kublai Khan leading either China or Mongolia is good too and I don't complain, it just wouldn't be my first choice.

So I think everyone would be happy if we got a Pharaoh and an alt leader for China. Everything else would be gravy.
 
I don't see many people discounting Vietnam. They are probably the most likely due to the large fanbase wanting them and as mentioned before they have a more Sinosphere influence than the rest of Southeast Asia, which the Khmer influenced heavily with Siam being one of them.

I think if they wanted to make Siam possible they could have given the Khmer a Baray unique infrastructure instead of the Prasat. The term Prasat is used in Thai as well and represents the cultural impact that the Khmer had over all of mainland South East Asia. At least that's how I look at it.

Siam could have Prangs, or Wats as in Civ V, but I don't think they'd take both civs in a religious direction if they did use Siam. I like the fact that they represented barays with the UA and still made room for the Prasat for the Khmer. As above I suspect there are plenty of reasons Siam is unlikely, but lack of unique options isn't one of them.
 
What do you call that feeling when you are disappointed, but in a way that is surprising?

Dismay? Rage? Despair? Bewilderment?

I'm surprised so many comments were generally of acceptance. I personally would be irritated, since as a matter of fairness I think China, Russia, Arabia, and Egypt (and maybe Germany) all need second leaders before we start talking about third leaders.

I already kind of hate magnificence Catherine. She was a tough choice to swallow on her own, but I accepted that she fit the desired mechanical playstyle better than Louis XIV. That justification completely falls apart if they give her different abilities that should have gone to another French leader.

Teddy is fine. That's all America really deserved....we didn't need a second president.
 
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I'm aware; I think Louis was extraneous with or without a second Catherine. But it's still more love given to Catherine than I think is necessary.

I guess my issue isn't magnificence Catherine's abilities specifically, but that it's pretty much shutting down getting Napoleon or Charlemagne. That, and I would have much preferred they do a second costume for a civ that didn't already have alt leaders. Why not an alternate for Frederick? Or Hojo? Or Saladin?
 
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