[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Interesting. It might be Ethiopian Axumite legacy as well.

That would be even better.

 

[Jeppetto]

Giving them a talking grandmother tree UI would be worse than Pocahontas as the leader.

I'm confused, are you trying to discourage me to want Pocahontas in the game? Because this is working the opposite way. I'd take it even If its only ability is that it replaces Sean Bean and the grandma narrates all quotes in mystical way.

 

[The Kingmaker]

So: back to the Hittites. I don’t see them making it in. Certainly not before 1) Babylon and 2) Assyria. That being said, I really want them back too. Maybe In Final Frontier.

Who should lead them? Mursili again? Suppiluliuma? Muwatalli II? Hattusili III?

I vote for Queen Puduhepa, one of the most influential women of the ancient Near East.

UU is definitely a heavy three-man chariot.

 

[Jeppetto]

Lol. I highly doubt the devs will go out of their way to create an arbitrary number of new beliefs for a single civ. It's a fairly boring and insular idea

Like bunch of effects from a unique Governor?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Like bunch of effects from a unique Governor?

At least a Governor has a face, something that feels tangible that the player can interface with. Beliefs might as well just be a few new policy cards.

Also the idea of unique beliefs somewhat negatively synergize with the game in the same way that a unique worship building would. Unlike replacements like UBs or UDs or options like the unique governor or UIs, having unique beliefs or unique policy cards discourages choice and encourages obligatory playstyles. The only way to avoid the dissatisfaction with always feeling obligated to choose the Byzantine beliefs every time would be either to make the unique beliefs underpowered, or to remove all the other beliefs and forgo the choice altogether. Neither is particularly fun and each results in a high-to-total probability of railroading.

So far we only have Kristina's UB existing in this space, and thankfully the player only has to make that uncomfortable decision precisely once in each Sweden game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Also the idea of unique beliefs somewhat negatively synergize with the game in the same way that a unique worship building would. Unlike replacements like UBs or UDs or options like the unique governor or UIs, having unique beliefs or unique policy cards discourages choice and encourages obligatory playstyles.

I see the possibility of a unique worship building being mutually exclusive with another worship belief that you pick, like the choice between art museum or archaeological museum.
If you have multiple Holy Sites you can have both.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I see the possibility of a unique worship building being mutually exclusive with another worship belief that you pick, like the choice between art museum or archaeological museum.
If you have multiple Holy Sites you can have both.

Oof. Not sure how I feel about the flavor of one religion being able to build different worship buildings. At least part of that would involve feeling indignant that I couldn't have been doing this all along with every other civ.

 

[Jeppetto]

Unlike replacements like UBs or UDs or options like the unique governor or UIs, having unique beliefs or unique policy cards discourages choice and encourages obligatory playstyles.

How exactly it creates obligatory playstyle the way UBs and UDs don't? You mean to tell me you have a strong holy sote (adjacency), military facility, commercial hub, harbor district or building and you don't feel shifted into obligatory play to capitalize on it?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

How exactly it creates obligatory playstyle the way UBs and UDs don't? You mean to tell me you have a strong holy sote (adjacency), military facility, commercial hub, harbor district or building and you don't feel shifted into obligatory play to capitalize on it?

It's how the player feels. UBs and UDs don't involve a choice; they just automatically enhance their universal equivalent. Also, players are still encouraged to play other buildings and districts, because other aspects of the civ still need to be built up and there are generally at least enough tiles that don't preclude the ability to choose other options for the remaining districts in a city. UBs and UDs are limitations, yes, but not to the extent of excluding all equivalents; Korea isn't forced to give up, or even discouraged all that much from building commercial hubs or industrial zones just because they have the Seowon.

Contrast that with beliefs, which mutually exclude other beliefs. If the Byzantine follower belief is a strict improvement over the other follow beliefs, then the player must always make the same choice to the exclusion of the other choices. They are railroaded into a decision chain that actually downplays religious flexibility. Generally the more modular parts of the game shouldn't have civ uniques for this reason, because that just creates a series of "false choices" that aren't really choices at all. It's better to not have the choices at all if all they do is threaten to poke holes in the players' fun balloons.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Oof. Not sure how I feel about the flavor of one religion being able to build different worship buildings. At least part of that would involve feeling indignant that I couldn't have been doing this all along with every other civ.

Isn't that already a possible option with Arabia in the game? Can't you purchase/build their worship building without being converted by them or am I mistaken?

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Isn't that already a possible option with Arabia in the game? Can't you purchase/build their worship building without being converted by them or am I mistaken?

I think you can build whatever worship building is claimed by the dominant religion in that city.

I'm talking more generally though. That a civ with a religion can't build more than one kind of worship building, or that civs without religions can't build any of the other worship buildings.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'm talking more generally though. That a civ with a religion can't build more than one kind of worship building, or that civs without religions can't build any of the other worship buildings.

That's my point. I think if Arabia is in the game you can already do this due to Saladin's leader ability, without being converted to the religion of Arabia.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Hittites — Puduhepa

CA: Meteorite Smelters: Industrial Zone becomes available after Bronze Working. Units spawned from meteor showers start with 2 promotions.

UU: 3 man chariot. replaces heavy chariot. +15 combat strength, -1 movement.

UI: Forge: Replaces Workshop. +1 science, +1 faith. +10% production on military units produced in a city with a forge.

LA: Priestess-Queen: Cities following the Hittite’s religion gain additional +2 loyalty. Each Holy Site provides +1 diplomatic favor.

 

[pokiehl]

That's my point. I think if Arabia is in the game you can already do this due to Saladin's leader ability, without being converted to the religion of Arabia.

That isn't the case. The only thing Arabia's ability does is allow any civ to buy it for 10% of the Faith cost. It still needs to be the majority Religion to do that.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That isn't the case. The only thing Arabia's ability does is allow any civ to buy it for 10% of the Faith cost. It still needs to be the majority Religion to do that.

I must have misread that somewhere else.
It would however make Arabia more interesting if that was the case.

 

[Kouvb593kdnuewnd]

Hittites — Puduhepa

CA: Meteorite Smelters: Industrial Zone becomes available after Bronze Working. Units spawned from meteor showers start with 2 promotions.

UU: 3 man chariot. replaces heavy chariot. +15 combat strength, -1 movement.

UI: Forge: Replaces Workshop. +1 science, +1 faith. +10% production on military units produced in a city with a forge.

LA: Priestess-Queen: Cities following the Hittite’s religion gain additional +2 loyalty. Each Holy Site provides +1 diplomatic favor.

The CA is really limited in scope, getting IZ at Bronze working don't change much from what I can tell and the other part is extremely limited in scope. The UU is interesting, maybe have to cost more than heavy chariot since 15 additional strength is alot. The UI is quite boring and the LA seems to lack synergy with the rest given the military focus. Here are some changes:

CA: +100% production speed towards IZ, +10% production towards military units per IZ building, so +30% for a fully built IZ.

UU: production cost increased to 90 and maintenance increased to 2.

UI: No production bonus to units since it is in the CA. +25% experience gain for units build in the city, +1 science and +1 faith for each mined strategic and bonus resource.

LA: No diplomatic favor lost from controlling cities that follow the Hittite's religion.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Considering the Hittites were the first to make weapons out of iron I think having iron being revealed at the beginning of the game, or at mining, would be interesting.

 

[Kwami]

I must have misread that somewhere else.
It would however make Arabia more interesting if that was the case.

Why? Arabia wants to convert foreign cities so that they get more science. Foreign cities want to be converted for the cheap worship building. It works the way it is now. If everyone could build Arabia's worship building without being converted, then the other players would get the bonuses from the building and they wouldn't want Arabia to convert them, denying Arabia the extra science. That doesn't work.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

The CA is really limited in scope, getting IZ at Bronze working don't change much from what I can tell and the other part is extremely limited in scope. The UU is interesting, maybe have to cost more than heavy chariot since 15 additional strength is alot. The UI is quite boring and the LA seems to lack synergy with the rest given the military focus. Here are some changes:

CA: +100% production speed towards IZ, +10% production towards military units per IZ building, so +30% for a fully built IZ.

UU: production cost increased to 90 and maintenance increased to 2.

UI: No production bonus to units since it is in the CA. +25% experience gain for units build in the city, +1 science and +1 faith for each mined strategic and bonus resource.

LA: No diplomatic favor lost from controlling cities that follow the Hittite's religion.

Good ideas, Let me edit it
Hittites — Puduhepa

CA: Meteorite Smelters: Industrial Zone becomes available after Bronze Working and are produced 25% faster. Units spawned from meteor showers start with 2 promotions. 10% production on military units produced in a city with a forge.

UU: 3 man chariot. replaces heavy chariot. +15 combat strength, -1 movement. Increased production cost.

UI: Forge: Replaces Workshop. Cities with a forge receive +1 science, +1 faith for each mined or quarried resource.

LA: Priestess-Queen: Captured Cities following the Hittite’s religion do not lose diplomatic favor and gain +2 loyalty

 

[SMcM]

Hammurabi was in Civ 1-4. Nebuchadnezzar was in Civ 5. The two of them are really the only viable Babylonian leaders. No one else has major name recognition. I don’t foresee anybody knocking down FXS’ doors to get Burnaburiash in the game, for example.

Yes that was a typo, I meant all the civ games up to 5.

And I don't know enough about the Babylonians to comment on whether there are other viable leaders besides those two.