[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Wielki Hegemon]

We should just have a consolidated thread for all the times someone "comes up" with the idea for a Trung sisters double leader as if the V mod never existed.

I see you assume a fact that everyone knows every single mod? Ok, then.

I would call the ability Kinh though (meaning rural village)

Sounds good for me.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I see you assume a fact that everyone knows every single mod? Ok, then.

It's one of the most popular and subscribed civ V mods. I don't expect you to be familiar with the mods; I am always surprised, however, at how common it is for people to have never seen this "idea" before on these forums despite how frequently it comes up.

That's basically what I came up with when I was designing my version of Vietnam. I would call the ability Kinh though (meaning rural village)
It also helps that the Trung sisters were able to recruit a lot of their followers from the countryside. I even made it her agenda that she dislikes Civs with many districts in her cities and prefers more improvements.

Given that most civs farmed, I generally would prioritize other aspects if they exist and only fall back on farming bonuses if they had little else to create a more unique niche. In the case of Vietnam, I think having some sort of defensive ability feels more uniquely Vietnamese. Maybe that could tie in with farms though, like a "farms can't be pillaged."

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Given that most civs farmed, I generally would prioritize other aspects if they exist and only fall back on farming bonuses if they had little else to create a more unique niche. In the case of Vietnam, I think having some sort of defensive ability feels more uniquely Vietnamese. Maybe that could tie in with farms though.

The bonuses wouldn't come from just farms probably but fishing boats as well. Considering most of the people in Vietnam's history lived in rural areas I think this is a good and interesting way to approach designing this civ.
The defensive, militaristic bonuses could come from Trung Trac's ability and she could use those farms and fishing boats towards unit productions. Besides the Trung sisters themselves were born and raised in a small rural village in northern Vietnam.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

That's basically what I came up with when I was designing my version of Vietnam. I would call the ability Kinh though (meaning rural village)
It also helps that the Trung sisters were able to recruit a lot of their followers from the countryside. I even made it her agenda that she dislikes Civs with many districts in their cities and prefers more improvements.

While I think it's a great idea, it would be very unlikely. They went kind of this road with the Mayas: huge bonuses from farms. Each farm give 1.5 housing, +1 gold and the same adjacency bonus for the Observatory than a district. In term of housing, a farm is better than any district except the encampment or the harbor (if the city-center is on the coast). So I'm not saying that you had exactly the same idea, far from it, but having a civ with bonuses to farms/countryside improvements has been (poorly) explored with the Mayas and I highly doubt they will go the samish way for another civ, sadly.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

It's one of the most popular and subscribed Civ V mods. I don't expect you to be familiar with the mods; I am always surprised, however, at how common it is for people to have never seen this "idea" before on these forums despite how frequently it comes up."

I don't use moded civilizations perhaps that's why.
It's ok, besides I was not trying to say it's my original unique idea, but that I came from the concept of farm-based Civ with "peace and development" and "war and surprise" phases and then I thought that Trung sisters match this. I have understood that you think my whole idea was only to justify the inclusion of Thung sisters which you are not a fan of.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While I think it's a great idea, it would be very unlikely. They went kind of this road with the Mayas: huge bonuses from farms. Each farm give 1.5 housing, +1 gold and the same adjacency bonus for the Observatory than a district. In term of housing, a farm is better than any district except the encampment or the harbor (if the city-center is on the coast). So I'm not saying that you had exactly the same idea, far from it, but having a civ with bonuses to farms/countryside improvements has been (poorly) explored with the Mayas and I highly doubt they will go the samish way for another civ, sadly.

To be fair I thought of this idea before the Maya were officially released or we knew anything about the NFP.

Considering Vietnam also has a big fishing culture maybe the housing bonuses could at least apply to fishing boats.
Unfortunately they will probably get no expansion bonuses because I originally thought it would be cool if farms could gain culture every time they are flooded with a river, or even build a water puppet theater improvement on a flooded tile, similar to their original purpose.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

To be fair I thought of this idea before the Maya were officially released or we knew anything about the NFP.

Considering Vietnam also has a big fishing culture maybe the housing bonuses could at least apply to fishing boats.
Unfortunately they will probably get no expansion bonuses because I originally thought it would be cool if farms could gain culture every time they are flooded with a river, or even build a water puppet theater improvement on a flooded tile, similar to their original purpose.

Maybe a farming and a fishing bonus?

And yeah it seems that if Vietnam is in RFP, it will only have vanilla mechanics. Guess that also rules out the water theatre being a water park building. I would expect if that is Vietnam's UI (and it really should be), it will be something they can build on marshes and/or lakes.

 

[untitledjuan]

Agreed. Neither Civ5's nor Civ6's approach to religion has been ideal, but of the two Civ5's was much better. RV was a step entirely in the wrong direction.

Just wanted to pass by and say that I agree on this

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Maybe a farming and a fishing bonus?

And yeah it seems that if Vietnam is in RFP, it will only have vanilla mechanics. Guess that also rules out the water theatre being a water park building. I would expect if that is Vietnam's UI (and it really should be), it will be something they can build on marshes and/or lakes.

A fishing bonus is also a good idea. As I said water puppet theatre, could replace theatre and add culture bonuses to farms similar like Maori Marae spread faith and culture. UI with farm/marsh/river/lake interactions would be fine too.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I’m going to go against the grain and suggest Ngo Quyen for Vietnam, largely because he was the first leader of the Vietnamese people who was actually able to successfully gain independence from China and maintain it, while the Trung sisters weren’t able to maintain the independence.

Vietnam: Ngo Quyen

CA: Dai Viet: +10 combat strength for 10 turns if declared war on. Additional +5 if the aggressor unit is from a later era. Fishing Boats provide +1 culture

UU: Viet Cong: replaces infantry. +5 combat strength in jungle. No movement penalty in jungle. Has 3 charges to build farms or chops. Does not expire after the charges.

UI: Water Puppet Theatre: Replaces Theatre Square. Major adjacency bonuses for rivers and swamps. Every building inside a Water Puppet Theatre provides +1 amenity.

LU: Annam Rebellion: +10 combat strength against units of a bordering nation with more overall combat strength. Builders gain access to the River Pikes Unique Improvement.

LUI: River Pikes: Must be built on a tile adjacent to a river by a builder. Movement of units across river pikes is doubled. Units which end their turn on a tile with river pikes get damaged.

 

[AvianBritish]

I've not been keeping an eye on the thread as I fell so far behind at like page 50. However I've had in idea for the unique infestructure; similar to Indonesia's Kampung but taking the yeilds in a different direction:
Floating Village - Unique Tile Improvement that can be built adjacent to land and provide +1 housing and +1 food. +1 production for each adjacent fishing boat. +1 culture for each adjacent feature (land or costal). Can be build on coast and reefs (as they float).

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I’m going to go against the grain and suggest Ngo Quyen for Vietnam, largely because he was the first leader of the Vietnamese people who was actually able to successfully gain independence from China and maintain it, while the Trung sisters weren’t able to maintain the independence.

Vietnam: Ngo Quyen

CA: Dai Viet: +10 combat strength for 10 turns if declared war on. Additional +5 if the aggressor unit is from a later era. Fishing Boats provide +1 culture

UU: Viet Cong: replaces infantry. +5 combat strength in jungle. No movement penalty in jungle. Has 3 charges to build farms or chops. Does not expire after the charges.

UI: Water Puppet Theatre: Replaces Theatre Square. Major adjacency bonuses for rivers and swamps. Every building inside a Water Puppet Theatre provides +1 amenity.

LU: Annam Rebellion: +10 combat strength against units of a bordering nation with more overall combat strength. Builders gain access to the River Pikes Unique Improvement.

LUI: River Pikes: Must be built on a tile adjacent to a river by a builder. Movement of units across river pikes is doubled. Units which end their turn on a tile with river pikes get damaged.

Bonus when attacked is already the thing of John Curtin. Even if here it's a combat bonus and not a production bonus, I don't think they will go this road.

Also, I'm not a fan of too many leaders having a second UU or UI tied to them. I feel it make them too powerful. Why do some leaders have a UU while the vast majority doesn't? I always find it completely unfair.

 

[Leucarum]

Given that they are reusing leader frames so far, might that argue against a 'dual leader' civ as it would be a lot of work for their art and animation teams?

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Bonus when attacked is already the thing of John Curtin. Even if here it's a combat bonus and not a production bonus, I don't think they will go this road.

Also, I'm not a fan of too many leaders having a second UU or UI tied to them. I feel it make them too powerful. Why do some leaders have a UU while the vast majority doesn't? I always find it completely unfair.

usually leaders with a second ui or uu have weaker abilities or their civ just generally needs buffs.

usually the second uu or ui doesn’t make the civ too strong

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I've not been keeping an eye on the thread as I fell so far behind at like page 50. However I've had in idea for the unique infestructure; similar to Indonesia's Kampung but taking the yeilds in a different direction:
Floating Village - Unique Tile Improvement that can be built adjacent to land and provide +1 housing and +1 food. +1 production for each adjacent fishing boat. +1 culture for each adjacent feature (land or costal). Can be build on coast and reefs (as they float).

It is very similar. Too similar for my taste as a floating village is literally what a Kampung is supposed to be in the game.
The Water Puppet Theater is at least only found in Vietnam where floating villages are found throughout SE Asia.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Five Civilized Tribes were just confirmed by SCOTUS to own half of Oklahoma.

If we are looking at tribes with large tribal affiliation numbers, large territorial claims, and a high degree of governmental organization and diplomatic cooperation, I would now place these as on par or even exceeding the Navajo.

If we don't get a NA tribe in NFP, there might be time to campaign if that's something people want. I still would prefer a SW tribe for flavor but I can't deny that now the Five Tribes have massive pull and unparalleled relevancy. Maybe if the game development goes long enough we might get both the Navajo/Apache and the Cherokee/Creek/Muscogee.

 

[Zaarin]

Five Civilized Tribes were just confirmed by SCOTUS to own half of Oklahoma.

If we are looking at tribes with large tribal affiliation numbers, large territorial claims, and a high degree of governmental organization and diplomatic cooperation, I would now place these as on par or even exceeding the Navajo.

If we don't get a NA tribe in NFP, there might be time to campaign if that's something people want. I still would prefer a SW tribe for flavor but I can't deny that now the Five Tribes have massive pull and unparalleled relevancy. Maybe if the game development goes long enough we might get both the Navajo/Apache and the Cherokee/Creek/Muscogee.

This is why I've been advocating for the Choctaw's inclusion for years. I'd love to see the Creek, but choosing either a White Stick or a Red Stick comes with problems. The Cherokee have similar problems (albeit it didn't quite lead to civil war among the Cherokee). The Choctaw and Chickasaw have leaders and stability on their side over the Creek and Cherokee.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

This is why I've been advocating for the Choctaw's inclusion for years. I'd love to see the Creek, but choosing either a White Stick or a Red Stick comes with problems. The Cherokee have similar problems (albeit it didn't quite lead to civil war among the Cherokee). The Choctaw and Chickasaw have leaders and stability on their side over the Creek and Cherokee.

I kind of would like to treat them as a new Iroquois, lump all five tribes together as a coalition. Seems the fairest way to honor their recent accomplishment toward sovereignty. It would also be a convenient way to represent the tribal heritage of the entire deep south.

 

[Zaarin]

I kind of would like to treat them as a new Iroquois, lump all five tribes together as a coalition. Seems the fairest way to honor their recent accomplishment toward sovereignty. It would also be a convenient way to represent the tribal heritage of the entire deep south.

It would also be an egregious blob civ of "Polynesia" levels considering they were rivals--not to mention the Cherokee aren't even related to the other four, being Iroquoian. I could buy a Choctaw-Chickasaw blob--the two were very closely related, speaking two dialects of the same language--but a "Five Civilized Tribe" civilization might as well be Civ4's Native Americans.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

It would also be an egregious blob civ of "Polynesia" levels considering they were rivals--not to mention the Cherokee aren't even related to the other four, being Iroquoian. I could buy a Choctaw-Chickasaw blob--the two were very closely related, speaking two dialects of the same language--but a "Five Civilized Tribe" civilization might as well be Civ4's Native Americans.

Oh I know it would be very blobby. The difference between the Cherokee vs. the Muscogee-Seminole vs. Choctaw-Chickasaw are already very sprawling. It's certainly not on the same level of cultural relatedness as the Iroquois. But I also don't really want to leave any of them behind if Civ did commemorate the occasion; at least to some extent they managed to set aside their past rivalries to accomplish something together and that feels on the level of admirability as other leagues like the Delian League or Italic League. In that respect I believe it would be a sight less offensive than lumping Hawai'i, Maori, and Rapa Nui together despite them having minimal to no interaction with each other.

I imagine the happiest medium is to just do the Cherokee. They have the largest tribal affiliation (and by some accounts more than the Navajo). They could vicariously rep both the South and the Iroquoian peoples (if we aren't getting the Iroquois this time around). I know they aren't as mechanically intriguing as some of the other tribes, but they do seem to be the fairest and most marketable tribe on paper.

(they also developed their own syllabary which means we won't have to take the writing tech away from them )