idk, pretty much everyone said it would be one of LSS or Pacal
Well Gran Colombia was the easiest by far.
Because the Helvetii were a small tribe in Northern Italy and Switzerland and the Belgae were an admixture of Celts and Celticized Germanic peoples who considered themselves and were considered distinct from the Gauls (and who, again, were a relatively small people). Why the Gauls? Because they were wealthy, urbanized, educated, and culturally and technologically sophisticated far beyond the Hispano-Celts (Celtiberians and Gallaecians), the Cisalpine Gauls (e.g., the Leptontians, the Helvetii, etc.), and the Britons. The only other Celtic group to compare to them are the later Irish, who would be a fine choice as well, albeit the Medieval Irish and not the Irish of the Late Classical period (of whom we know relatively little). Other points in favor of the Gauls: they would be the only non-Roman, non-Greek civ from Iron Age Europe in the game; Gaulish, though far from well attested, is far and away better attested than any other Classical-era Celtic language (British is completely unattested, Lepontic and Cisalpine Gaulish are only attested well enough to say they're Celtic, Celtiberian's attestation is fragmentary, and Gallaecian is borderline unattested, chiefly attested in names not texts); and Gaulish is much further removed from Scotland in the timeline, language (even though Robert doesn't speak Gaelic), and culture than Ireland is. But perhaps Gaul's biggest selling point is it would preclude choosing Boudicca the Stereotype Queen as leader.
honestly, i’d much prefer ireland. Much less geographic overlap, a more interesting and well understood culture, a people and country that still exist today and therefore can be marketed to, and one of the most interesting and civ-style ‘Big Personality’ leaders in Brian Boru
Ok, my last words in this topic
Here is where we are all coming from. Making a civilization called the Celts is the same as lumping all of the Native Americans together. All the different native American tribes who were geographically and politically different. That's all we are trying to say. Nobody is saying there shouldn't be a Bronze Age/Classical European civilization. Just a particular group of them, or two, just like how they've done it with the Native Americans and Polynesia.Ok, my last words in this topic
First of all: Native North Americans or Mapuche never had an empire too. Is that mean they shouldn't be playable civ?
And now ad rem. I have used Rome's example with reference to the territorial argument. Of cause, Rome is not comparable to The Celts. But The Romans are a good example when it comes to make a distinction between one's Nation/Culture and it's heritage.
Cultures and civilizations are developing over time, mixing, absorbing each other. Modern France is mix of Celtic, Roman, Germanic cultures, and their own later great achievements. All this makes them unique: not Celtic, not Roman, not germanic but French. The same as the Irish, Scottish, Swedish, Norwegian etc. They are all unique but also they have their cultural heritage. We don't say that the fact French civilization has roman origins excludes The Romans as a Civ. We don't say The Romans would be a blob Civ because Spanish, Portuguese, or Italians have Roman origins too. But we are saying The Celts are covered by modern Scotland... Why?
This is not a case for the Romans because we feel that Roman civilization is not a French one.
When it comes to The Celts we are mixing this and somehow we expect that ancient Celtic heritage is not a distinct culture, but it is part of Irish, Scottish culture. This context makes us perceive them as a wide umbrella. But try to think about The Celts this way: They were European Iron age civilization who was fighting with Rome. Heart of their culture was in today Switzerland and Bavaria (some theories claim the source of their culture are the Pyrenees), from where they expanded to Portugal, Turkey, and Britain. Brennus conquered Rome before Romans built their empire. Their heritage is druidism, warfare culture, mining, trade, calendar, craftsmanship, a proto Celtic language etc. But they lost. They lost with Rome and later with Christianization. Today splashes of their heritage survived in some cultures but they do not exist as a Celts. This kind of perspective on a Celtic Civilization doesn't mean they shouldn't be named The Celts or they are blob there. And Civilization game is also about it. What if. What if The Celts were never conquered? Wouldnt you like to try it in the video game? I would like to.
Imagine they are trying to dump all Indochina civs into one civ. That is what celts is.
There never was unified celts. Not once not never.Ok, my last words in this topic
First of all: Native North Americans or Mapuche never had an empire too. Is that mean they shouldn't be playable civ?
And now ad rem. I have used Rome's example with reference to the territorial argument. Of cause, Rome is not comparable to The Celts. But The Romans are a good example when it comes to make a distinction between one's Nation/Culture and it's heritage.
Cultures and civilizations are developing over time, mixing, absorbing each other. Modern France is mix of Celtic, Roman, Germanic cultures, and their own later great achievements. All this makes them unique: not Celtic, not Roman, not germanic but French. The same as the Irish, Scottish, Swedish, Norwegian etc. They are all unique but also they have their cultural heritage. We don't say that the fact French civilization has roman origins excludes The Romans as a Civ. We don't say The Romans would be a blob Civ because Spanish, Portuguese, or Italians have Roman origins too. But we are saying The Celts are covered by modern Scotland... Why?
This is not a case for the Romans because we feel that Roman civilization is not a French one.
When it comes to The Celts we are mixing this and somehow we expect that ancient Celtic heritage is not a distinct culture, but it is part of Irish, Scottish culture. This context makes us perceive them as a wide umbrella. But try to think about The Celts this way: They were European Iron age civilization who was fighting with Rome. Heart of their culture was in today Switzerland and Bavaria (some theories claim the source of their culture are the Pyrenees), from where they expanded to Portugal, Turkey, and Britain. Brennus conquered Rome before Romans built their empire. Their heritage is druidism, warfare culture, mining, trade, calendar, craftsmanship, a proto Celtic language etc. But they lost. They lost with Rome and later with Christianization. Today splashes of their heritage survived in some cultures but they do not exist as a Celts. This kind of perspective on a Celtic Civilization doesn't mean they shouldn't be named The Celts or they are blob there. And Civilization game is also about it. What if. What if The Celts were never conquered? Wouldnt you like to try it in the video game? I would like to.
...But why, though? Gaulish is well enough attested to write some dialogue in. If the leader of the Gauls is going to speak Latin, frankly I'd rather not have them. (Amusingly enough, if we had the Britons I'd be 100% okay with them speaking Latin. By the time we have enough information on the Britons to make a civ out of them, they basically were Latin.)
And you didn't understand anything...What The Celts have in common with Native American blob? Celtic culture is a distinct set of traits well described in historical literature as La Tene culture and Hallstadt culture. This is not a case of Native American tribes. But why we need to know it if we have so fun meme...
and native americans also share some features if you cherry pick things lol
Agreed. The Celts and the Polynesians were cheap, lazy designs, but they weren't even on the same order of absurdity as Civ4's Native Americans.
Maybe I should be more explicit.
Coincidentally, that's a big if. The number of linguists who believe that British and Gaulish were a dialect continuum has shrunk drastically over the past decade or two. Increasingly Celticists are supporting a model of the Celtic languages wherein Hispano-Celtic, Gaulish-Lepontic, Brythonic, and Goidelic are all equidistant from each other.
