[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

i wouldn’t mind replacing zenobia/palmyra with the more long-lived Yemen and Queen Arwa either, since if I’m honest we’ve got a lack of Islamic civs, and Queen Arwa’s fame and popularity made her extremely interesting as a historical figure, perhaps particularly as a builder/trade civ.

Understandable, but at the same time I feel like Zenobia is really the only conceivable way to represent the Aramaic-speaking civilizations between Mesopotamia and the Levant.

 

[Alexadamz]

Assyria civ with Ashurbanipal as a leader could even have synergy with Babylon CS suzerain bonus.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Understandable, but at the same time I feel like Zenobia is really the only conceivable way to represent the Aramaic-speaking civilizations between Mesopotamia and the Levant.

that’s 100% true, but they could always reasonably have the impending Hammurabi/Ashurbanipal speak Aramaic, or maybe go with a later kingdom in the area at the cost of them likely speaking arabic instead of aramaic?

Idk, to me, we don’t have the lower peninsula at all so i feel like i’d like to see that, either via oman (which functionally is more of a swahili stand in, since it’s capital was moved to Zanzibar from Muscat fairly often) or yemen.

I mean, i know you’re a middle east nut, so am i, but a region between mesopotamia and the levant is quite small and outside of Palmyra, more relevant as a constituent of ruling states than a sovereign nation in itself

 

[Zaarin]

they could always reasonably have the impending Hammurabi/Ashurbanipal speak Aramaic

I hope not. Aramaic became the lingua franca in the region in the late Assyrian period, that's true, but it didn't become the court language until the Persian period (so they could conceivably have made Cyrus speak Aramaic--which probably would have been better than the weird ungrammatical Iranian hodgepodge he speaks now ). With Hammurabi in particular it would be a very strange decision. (I mean, yeah, Hammurabi was an Amorite not an Akkadian, but even so Aramaic wouldn't be first attested for nearly a millennia after Hammurabi. The language of Hammurabi's court was certainly Old Babylonian Akkadian.)

maybe go with a later kingdom in the area at the cost of them likely speaking arabic instead of aramaic?

It's true they could pick one of the periods when the caliphate was centered on Damascus, but I still don't feel like that's ideal. By that period, Aramaic had become strongly associated with Christians, Jews, and Mandaeans as opposed to Arabic-speaking Muslims.

Idk, to me, we don’t have the lower peninsula at all so i feel like i’d like to see that, either via oman (which functionally is more of a swahili stand in, since it’s capital was moved to Zanzibar from Muscat fairly often) or yemen.

I mean, I'd love to see that, too. I don't think it necessarily has to be a case of either/or (except insofar as we only have so many civs to go around).

I mean, i know you’re a middle east nut, so am i, but a region between mesopotamia and the levant is quite small and outside of Palmyra, more relevant as a constituent of ruling states than a sovereign nation in itself

True of its later history, but up until the Hellenistic period Aram was usually either independent or else a client of whoever the regional power at the time was (Egypt, Hittites, Babylon, Assyria). The Kingdom of Damascus was, for much of its history, regionally powerful and very wealthy; the Egyptians and Assyrians allied themselves with Damascus more often than they attempted to conquer it. That's what I feel like Zenobia would be representing: not an upstart Roman offshoot but a much older history that's lacking in big personality leaders (and, of course, also a big personality leader who happens to be lacking a long-lasting important civilization).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Assyria civ with Ashurbanipal as a leader could even have synergy with Babylon CS suzerain bonus.

Yes he could at least until he decides he wants to conquer it.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I hope not. Aramaic became the lingua franca in the region in the late Assyrian period, that's true, but it didn't become the court language until the Persian period (so they could conceivably have made Cyrus speak Aramaic--which probably would have been better than the weird ungrammatical Iranian hodgepodge he speaks now ). With Hammurabi in particular it would be a very strange decision. (I mean, yeah, Hammurabi was an Amorite not an Akkadian, but even so Aramaic wouldn't be first attested for nearly a millennia after Hammurabi. The language of Hammurabi's court was certainly Old Babylonian Akkadian.)


It's true they could pick one of the periods when the caliphate was centered on Damascus, but I still don't feel like that's ideal. By that period, Aramaic had become strongly associated with Christians, Jews, and Mandaeans as opposed to Arabic-speaking Muslims.


I mean, I'd love to see that, too. I don't think it necessarily has to be a case of either/or (except insofar as we only have so many civs to go around).


True of its later history, but up until the Hellenistic period Aram was usually either independent or else a client of whoever the regional power at the time was (Egypt, Hittites, Babylon, Assyria). The Kingdom of Damascus was, for much of its history, regionally powerful and very wealthy; the Egyptians and Assyrians allied themselves with Damascus more often than they attempted to conquer it. That's what I feel like Zenobia would be representing: not an upstart Roman offshoot but a much older history that's lacking in big personality leaders (and, of course, also a big personality leader who happens to be lacking a long-lasting important civilization).

speaking of persian, if we could eventually get an alt-leaders pack where we can get alt leaders for the civs which need it but don’t have one (assuming Kublai leads both Mongolia and China)

Russia, Persia, Egypt, Arabia, Spain, Zulu, Korea, Maya and the Netherlands are who I’d personally pick if we got the same # of leaders

Yes he could at least until he decides he wants to conquer it.

the Ai seriously likes taking CSs out too much

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

speaking of persian, if we could eventually get an alt-leaders pack where we can get alt leaders for the civs which need it but don’t have one (assuming Kublai leads both Mongolia and China)

Russia, Persia, Egypt, Arabia, Spain, Zulu, Korea, Maya and the Netherlands are who I’d personally pick if we got the same # of leaders


the Ai seriously likes taking CSs out too much

Nobody is allowed to replace the glorious Cyrus, Wilhelmina or Seondeok.

But on a serious note I wouldn't mind another leader for only either Egypt, Russia, or Germany personally (I'm also assuming Kublai will also lead Mongolia and China).

I don't have a strong preference for Germany but I just think a more modern Prussian one or Bismarck again would differentiate himself from Frederick. Though if they wanted to go crazy and do Maria Theresa I wouldn't mind.

Same for Egypt. I think any other Pharaoh, no matter who they pick, would differentiate from Cleo.

As for Russia I don't think it would happen but I would like to see Lenin for Soviet Russia to differentiate from Tsar Peter.
If Magnificent Catherine wouldn't have come along and be so similar to Louis XIV I was almost tempted to say France again.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Nobody is allowed to replace the glorious Cyrus, Wilhelmina or Seondeok.

But on a serious note I wouldn't mind another leader for only either Egypt, Russia, or Germany personally (I'm also assuming Kublai will also lead Mongolia and China).

I don't have a strong preference for Germany but I just think a more modern Prussian one or Bismarck again would differentiate himself from Frederick. Though if they wanted to go crazy and do Maria Theresa I wouldn't mind.

Same for Egypt. I think any other Pharaoh, no matter who they pick, would differentiate from Cleo.

As for Russia I don't think it would happen but I would like to see Lenin for Soviet Russia to differentiate from Tsar Peter.
If Magnificent Catherine wouldn't have come along and be so similar to Louis XIV I was almost tempted to say France again.

i was thinking for korea, gwangaeto and for persia, khosrow ii would be good fools to cyrus and seondeok as they take the play in a different direction. Cyrus is by far my favorite civ leader but persia is significant enough to receive two leaders.

Russia, I think Alexander II or Catherine the Great would be good alternatives to Peter, but i’d be interested in Lenin as well, who i’d presume would get bonuses to production and science instead of religion and culture

Egypt, I would love to see Nefertiti, Hatshepsut, Akhenaten or Ramses.

Netherlands im honeslty not sure if they need one, especially because no one would use Wilhelmina.

If they renamed Germany to HRE and added Charlemagne, that would be cool, and i suppose Maria Theresa isn’t technically german but i guess it’s not a stretch (?) to make her a German leader, although Bismarck would theoretically be the next best, if not Frederick the Great.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

i was thinking for korea, gwangaeto and for persia, khosrow ii would be good fools to cyrus and seondeok as they take the play in a different direction. Cyrus is by far my favorite civ leader but persia is significant enough to receive two leaders.

I just don't really care to see a military focused Korea personally. If they wanted to make Seondeok focus more on culture with her hwarang ability I could maybe see Sejong the Great for a science/ defensive leader.
I also am a big fan of Cyrus, and Achaemenid Persia in general, and I never really cared if that's all they decide to base Persia on in the games.

Russia, I think Alexander II or Catherine the Great would be good alternatives to Peter.

I'm just not the biggest fan of having two tsars where Soviet Russia would at least be different. That's not even counting the fact that we already have an Alexander and Catherine in the game.

If they renamed Germany to HRE and added Charlemagne, that would be cool, and i suppose Maria Theresa isn’t technically german but i guess it’s not a stretch (?) to make her a German leader, although Bismarck would theoretically be the next best, if not Frederick the Great.

Well she did lead them in Civ 2.
It's a stretch but I'd like to see her some way since Austria most likely isn't going to get in. I mean an alt. Hungary leader would work better for her since she was crowned Queen of Hungary. She even had their hussars in Civ 5.

 

[Zaarin]

Nobody is allowed to replace the glorious Cyrus, Wilhelmina or Seondeok.

I'd love to see a Sassanian leader of Persia, but I'm in full agreement on Netherlands and Korea.

My alternate leader wishlist would be Egypt, China (even if we get Kublai, I want a Tang emperor--or Empress Wu--in glorious hanfu ), and Persia. I wouldn't object to alternate leaders for Russia, Germany, or Rome. I'm tempted to add Arabia, but Saladin already feels too much like an Abbasid to feel like he's worth replacing with one...

Russia, I think Alexander II or Catherine the Great would be good alternatives to Peter.

My issue with Catherine is that she's nearly contemporary with Peter and is remembered for more or less the same thing as Peter (Westernizing Russia). Alexander II was assassinated too early for me to feel a strong need to include him. For a Russian leader, I would look backwards in time--like Alexander Nevsky, Olga of Kiev, or Ivan the Terrible.

If they renamed Germany to HRE and added Charlemagne, that would be cool, and i suppose Maria Theresa isn’t technically german but i guess it’s not a stretch (?) to make her a German leader, although Bismarck would theoretically be the next best, if not Frederick the Great.

Austria was at the heart of Germania in Frederick's time; I would have zero problems with Maria Theresa leading Germany. As for renaming Germany, I don't think there's a good reason to do so; the Holy Roman Empire was Germany (even taking into account that it ruled over some non-German Italians, Baltic Prussians, and Czechs).

Nefertiti

She'd definitely be a big personality and she may or may not have been the pharaoh who reigned as Neferneferuaten in between Akhenaten and Tutankhamun, but I'm not sure I'd be thrilled about her, not when Hatshepsut would be a better option for a pharaoh who reigned in her own right or Nefertari for a queen who was co-regent with a powerful pharaoh (and deified in her lifetime).

I just don't really care to see a military focused Korea personally.

I'm still crossing my fingers for a cultural/religious Korea in Civ7.

I'm just not the biggest fan of having two tsars where Soviet Russia would at least be different.

Too different. The Soviet Union is a completely different civilization IMO. As I said above, if they choose a second leader for Russia, they should look backwards in time, not forwards.

It's a stretch but I'd like to see her some way since Austria isn't going to get in. I mean an alt. Hungary leader would work better for her since she was crowned Queen of Hungary.

Actually, she'd be a prime candidate to lead Germany and Hungary. If she gave her full title, she could put Frederick and Philip to shame.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Actually, she'd be a prime candidate to lead Germany and Hungary. If she gave her full title, she could put Frederick and Philip to shame.

Maria Theresa and Phillip II would be the only pair of related leaders in the game besides Genghis and Kublai

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

My alternate leader wishlist would be Egypt, China (even if we get Kublai, I want a Tang emperor--or Empress Wu--in glorious hanfu ), and Persia. I wouldn't object to alternate leaders for Russia, Germany, or Rome. I'm tempted to add Arabia, but Saladin already feels too much like an Abbasid to feel like he's worth replacing with one...

I forgot about Rome. Though of course I wouldn't mind if they did a Byzantine leader for Rome or Byzantine-like Constantine, but I'd rather them be a full civ which I am pretty sure they will be.
I also agree about Arabia. If anything a "House of Wisdom" ability for Harun al Rashid would have worked with Saladin's ability, while Saladin could have been the military/holy war leader.

Too different. The Soviet Union is a completely different civilization IMO. As I said above, if they choose a second leader for Russia, they should look backwards in time, not forwards.

He lead them at least on Civ Rev 2 that was released in 2014.
I wouldn't want the Soviet Union as a separate civ though. Soviet Russia to me doesn't feel too different unless it's because of the Lavra and the religious focus which I can see.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

If anything a "House of Wisdom" ability for Harun al Rashid would have worked with Saladin's ability, while Saladin could have been the military/holy war leader.

I suppose they could split saladin up like Teddy and give the science side to Rashid and keep the faith stuff with Saladin, while also giving him a military bonus.

of course, my preference for an arabian alt is Shajar al-Durr, who would fit a espionage/diplomacy side, which wouldn’t necessitate the division of Saladin

 

[Zaarin]

Maria Theresa and Phillip II would be the only pair of related leaders in the game besides Genghis and Kublai

Frederick Barbarossa would also be an ancestor of theirs, if I'm not mistaken.

I forgot about Rome. Though of course I wouldn't mind if they did a Byzantine leader for Rome or Byzantine-like Constantine, but I'd rather them be a full civ which I am pretty sure they will be.

I do mind very much, and I'm hoping for Byzantium as a full civ or not at all. I don't think Rome is in any particular need of an alternate leader. Trajan represents Rome very well. They do have a very long history, however, with plenty of other emperors who could take the civ in any number of different directions.

I wouldn't want the Soviet Union as a separate civ though. Soviet Russia to me doesn't feel too different unless it's because of the Lavra and the religious focus which I can see.

Yeah, the cultural/religious focus of Russia would feel very strange for the Soviet Union--far stranger than it does even being led by Peter, who was a notorious enemy of the Russian Orthodox Church. At the very least Russia itself was very religious, even under Peter, whereas the Soviets actively suppressed the Church--except when they needed it to give them a PR boost, of course.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I do mind very much, and I'm hoping for Byzantium as a full civ or not at all. I don't think Rome is in any particular need of an alternate leader. Trajan represents Rome very well. They do have a very long history, however, with plenty of other emperors who could take the civ in any number of different directions.

I'd definitely prefer them to be their own civ. Though if we weren't going to get everything I wouldn't have minded making that sacrifice for other new civs apparently coming like Vietnam or possibly Italy.

Yeah, the cultural/religious focus of Russia would feel very strange for the Soviet Union--far stranger than it does even being led by Peter, who was a notorious enemy of the Russian Orthodox Church. At the very least Russia itself was very religious, even under Peter, whereas the Soviets actively suppressed the Church--except when they needed it to give them a PR boost, of course.

Not as weird if Kublai Khan becomes leader of China and can build the Great Wall.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Not as weird if Kublai Khan becomes leader of China and can build the Great Wall.

I didn't realize that the UI isn't tied to leader; now I find that really hilarious as you mentioned the possibility.

Kublai can keep the earlier canals though, he was a big canal builder IRL. (On the other hand, Qin Shi Huang wasn't one, but still received the earlier canal ability.)

 

[Zaarin]

Not as weird if Kublai Khan becomes leader of China and can build the Great Wall.

To be fair, the Yuan didn't expand the Great Wall, but they did maintain it. China didn't stop having trouble with steppe invaders just because it was ruled by steppe invaders.

 

[SMcM]

Just in case you haven't heard either a lot of people, including myself, have been talking about one of the Trung Sisters, or both, as possible leaders for Vietnam as well.
The developers love reading this forum and look at potential ideas.

Well that's hardly new, I'm aware they have been a popular leader choice since they were in the popular Civ 5 mod. Though personally I'm not overly keen on the idea of having 2 leaders on the screen if I'm honest. So I'd prefer they had the sisters as alt leaders, or just went for someone else like Le Loi.

 

[Zaarin]

Well that's hardly new, I'm aware they have been a popular leader choice since they were in the popular Civ 5 mod. Though personally I'm not overly keen on the idea of having 2 leaders on the screen if I'm honest. So I'd prefer they had the sisters as alt leaders, or just went for someone else like Le Loi.

As interesting as it might be, I think there's a 0% chance that they'll have two leaders on screen at the same time in NFP specifically, not the way they've used cost-cutting measures with the rest of the leaders. We'll either just have Trung Trac (calling it: she uses Gitarja's animations ), or else we'll have someone else.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I didn't realize that the UI isn't tied to leader; now I find that really hilarious as you mentioned the possibility.

Kublai can keep the earlier canals though, he was a big canal builder IRL. (On the other hand, Qin Shi Huang wasn't one, but still received the earlier canal ability.)

Yeah the early Canal is tied to Qin though and he did build canals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingqu

Well that's hardly new, I'm aware they have been a popular leader choice since they were in the popular Civ 5 mod. Though personally I'm not overly keen on the idea of having 2 leaders on the screen if I'm honest. So I'd prefer they had the sisters as alt leaders, or just went for someone else like Le Loi.

I forgot they were in a mod for Civ 5.
Well we now know for a fact that they wouldn't have both though. I think Trung Trac as the leader and Trung Nhi as a leader unique Great General from the start of the game would be cool to have, especially if she would ride an elephant.