[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

Semiramis is factually better known

Citation please. It seems to me you're passing on your own "silly anecdotal experience" as fact, especially since it coincidentally suits your agenda.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I see all over here that kublai and Vietnam are all but confirmed for the frontier pass, but I can't find the leak or data mining that shows that. What exactly was it that says they're in?

After Ethiopia someone found a readme txt file that mentioned Kublai and Vietnam. Similar ones were located in the other NFP files pertaining to the other existing packs. There's now a readme pertaining to Byzantium and Gaul as well.

But the Kublai/Vietnam readme was hot fixed into oblivion shortly after it was discovered.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Regarding the Sami and their status as hunter-gatherers and/or nomads, it's a little bit more complicated than that. In Scandinavia they have a long history of joining their countryment in the settlement of new urban centers, especially at the start of the northern renaissance era. Most towns in the north of Scandinavia got both Sami and Scandinavian names, and the Sami would periodically constitute the majority of the population in many of the northern towns, something that didn't change until the start of industrialisation, as when the value of timber and ore increased more Scandinavian settlers would arrive from the south.

In Sweden for instance there are quite a lot of towns with Sami names or Swedified Sami names, such as Jokkmokk, Gällivare or Jukkasjärvi.

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

 

[ButtBillionaire]

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

I don't know about that. I'd be surprised if that was the case, considering how much further south it is from what is traditionally regarded as Sápmi.

But what was said before goes for Norway as well. Many towns with Sámi or Norwegianified Sámi names, with Karasjok (Kárášjohka) and Kautokeino (Guovdageaidnu) being the most well-known. If you travel far enough into Finnmark, the place names around you eventually become exclusively Sámi.

 

[Patine]

But all of these nomadic groups, or their direct descendants, are now settled, in the modern day, settled in permanent cities and towns as their bases of nationhood, or, at least, ethnic territorial identity. Would "nomadic culture," with "mobile cities," eventually "settle down," sometime in the Industrial or Modern Age or would they be planned to be permanently "nomadic," and the chaos, handicap, and unrealism that would cause in the much later game? That's my concern, there.

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this post I made yesterday about what I see as the biggest issue with "nomadic civs," with "mobile cities," across the whole span of the game?

I don't know about that. I'd be surprised if that was the case, considering how much further south it is from what is traditionally regarded as Sápmi.

But what was said before goes for Norway as well. Many towns with Sámi or Norwegianified Sámi names, with Karasjok (Kárášjohka) and Kautokeino (Guovdageaidnu) being the most well-known. If you travel far enough into Finnmark, the place names around you eventually become exclusively Sámi.

And Murmansk, the big Russian Arctic Port.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this post I made yesterday about what I see as the biggest issue with "nomadic civs," with "mobile cities," across the whole span of the game?

Sapmi is an established geographical region and the Saami were only partially nomadic, so as opposed to other nomadic civ choices, primarily the Inuit and Aboriginal Australians, Sapmi is far more likely and can actually be a good civ design

 

[Patine]

Sapmi is an established geographical region and the Saami were only partially nomadic, so as opposed to other nomadic civ choices, primarily the Inuit and Aboriginal Australians, Sapmi is far more likely and can actually be a good civ design

The two responses were to separate contexts. One was about a general nomadic civ idea discussed yesterday, the other was in response to original Sapmi including Murmansk. They weren't directly related to each other. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[AsH2]

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

Not even close.
Have you ever heard about the Nordic Bronze Age?

 

[Red_warning]

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

The Sami never lived that far south and the town itself was founded during the 1600s.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Citation please. It seems to me you're passing on your own "silly anecdotal experience" as fact, especially since it coincidentally suits your agenda.

I'm gonna throw my personal anecdotal experience in with Genya's. I think it's kind of a toss-up, but I would argue that Semiramis had a huge leg up in the popular consciousness for centuries over Ashurbanipal for the exact reason Genya stated: she was mythologized in European history to a much greater extent than Ashurbanipal. I mean, Ashurbanipal never had any operas written about him.

That said, I don't think being a European icon should give her any sort of advantage in leader selection.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm gonna throw my personal anecdotal experience in with Genya's. I think it's kind of a toss-up, but I would argue that Semiramis had a huge leg up in the popular consciousness for centuries over Ashurbanipal for the exact reason Genya stated: she was mythologized in European history to a much greater extent than Ashurbanipal. I mean, Ashurbanipal never had any operas written about him.

And if it were 1720, that might be a legitimate claim. In 2020, however, I doubt your casual gamer knows any opera beyond Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" and Mozart's The Barber of Seville, both from Looney Toons, neither featuring Semiramis. Whereas anyone who was paying attention in middle school history class should have at least heard the name Ashurbanipal a few times. I'm on Team Sennacherib (who has a pretty hefty pop history presence himself thanks to the Biblical depiction of his siege of Jerusalem and Lord Byron's poem) or Team Esarhaddon myself, but Ashurbanipal is probably the most famous Assyrian king now. Also NB both Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib are modern Assyrian culture heroes.

 

[AaronTBD]

I wonder if anyone has founded a leak yet on later packs.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I wonder if anyone has founded a leak yet on later packs.

There is already a thread about that. Just not about new civs.

 

[AsH2]

Regarding the Sami
..
Jukkasjärvi.

That's Finnish.

 

[Loerwyn]

I don't think the Sisters necessarily have to be two leaders. It would be interesting to see them as one leader but both showing. Perhaps one talks for more positive messages, the other for more negative. There's a fair bit of dead-space in a lot of the various Leader Screens so I don't think they lack the space to do it, especially if they do them back-to-back, at an angled shoulder-to-shoulder or some other sort of close pose.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

And if it were 1720, that might be a legitimate claim. In 2020, however, I doubt your casual gamer knows any opera beyond Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" and Mozart's The Barber of Seville, both from Looney Toons, neither featuring Semiramis. Whereas anyone who was paying attention in middle school history class should have at least heard the name Ashurbanipal a few times. I'm on Team Sennacherib (who has a pretty hefty pop history presence himself thanks to the Biblical depiction of his siege of Jerusalem and Lord Byron's poem) or Team Esarhaddon myself, but Ashurbanipal is probably the most famous Assyrian king now. Also NB both Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib are modern Assyrian culture heroes.

It might depend from where you come from. Don't forget that all the playerbase is not American (don't remember where you're from though).

The first time I heard about Ashurbanipal was with civ 5, and I was the king of students that was attentive enough in History class. But Assyria was never truly the main subject of our Ancient History courses. Egypt, yes, but we never really talked about kings or emperors, more about cultural and technological systems, environments and how those cultures became the craddle of civilization. Also, it was at the very beginning of middle school so it was a long time ago.

On the other hand, I remember Semiramis from my Classical Letters classes (and also from Rossini but I could just shove my throat with Rossini all day long and never be tired).

The status between "Who is more known: Ashurbanipal or Semiramis?" might greatly vary between your country and the kind of education you went through. Ancient History might change focus: we spent a lot of time on Rome and Gauls because that were our "ancestors"... But Middle-East? "Here's Babylon, here's Sumer, here's Egypt, now we move on".

It would be interesting to do a poll like: "Before Civ 5 BNW, which one did you knew more: Ashurbanipal or Semiramis?". Rather than fighting on anecdotical evidence upon anecdotical evidence, this anecdotical poll could at least begins to confirm some intuitions.

 

[AntSou]

The first time I heard about Ashurbanipal was with civ 5, and I was the king of students that was attentive enough in History class. But Assyria was never truly the main subject of our Ancient History courses. Egypt, yes, but we never really talked about kings or emperors, more about cultural and technological systems, environments and how those cultures became the craddle of civilization. Also, it was at the very beginning of middle school so it was a long time ago.

Same where I'm from.

I studied Assyria / Babylon/ Egypt, etc in school, sort of bundled together in a cradle of civilization theme, but the focus was always on culture, the importance of the rivers, etc. You'd speak of pharaohs and the Nile and the basic structure of Egyptian society, but personalities were rarely mentioned iirc.

 

[conorbebe]

Meanwhile at my school, we only briefly covered Ancient Greece and Rome, but didn’t learn about any leaders in particular. History lessons just kept to WW1 and WW2, with a bit of the American civil rights movement thrown in for good measure. The UK education system leaves much to be desired.

But to add my two cents, I’d much prefer Ashurbanipal, king of the world, king of Assyria.

 

[SMcM]

No, no, I was agreeing with you that she's not inspiring.

Oh sorry, I took your quoting 'inspirational' to be sarcasm about what I said!

I don't think the Sisters necessarily have to be two leaders. It would be interesting to see them as one leader but both showing. Perhaps one talks for more positive messages, the other for more negative. There's a fair bit of dead-space in a lot of the various Leader Screens so I don't think they lack the space to do it, especially if they do them back-to-back, at an angled shoulder-to-shoulder or some other sort of close pose.

Maybe I'm being OCD because I'd hate have a 'leader' like that which stood out so much from all the other leaders, but I really hope they don't do that. I think having 2 leaders in the same screen would feel bizarre and distracting, I much prefer having one character representing the civilization.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I don't think the Sisters necessarily have to be two leaders. It would be interesting to see them as one leader but both showing. Perhaps one talks for more positive messages, the other for more negative. There's a fair bit of dead-space in a lot of the various Leader Screens so I don't think they lack the space to do it, especially if they do them back-to-back, at an angled shoulder-to-shoulder or some other sort of close pose.

One of them literally did not lead in any capacity. No thanks.

Same where I'm from.

I studied Assyria / Babylon/ Egypt, etc in school, sort of bundled together in a cradle of civilization theme, but the focus was always on culture, the importance of the rivers, etc. You'd speak of pharaohs and the Nile and the basic structure of Egyptian society, but personalities were rarely mentioned iirc.

In ours we briefly went over important people: Ramses, Hatshepsut, Ashurbanipal and Hammurabi