[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Thenewwwguy]

That's what I told my brother who really only plays Civ 5, when he says most of the leader choices in that game are better and more well known.

I explained to him that it was Menelik II who beat back Italy and modernized Ethiopia, so in one of these instances I think he was a better leader choice. I'm not going to disagree with him on France though, even though I've grown to like them.

The fact that at least we've probably brought up Lady Six Sky and Tamar means maybe we've at least probably put them on their radar. Of course then there is always Ambiorix who we didn't even mention, so there are always surprises.

it’s essentially self-confirming. People will claim anything different from Civ 5 is obscure bcs for most fans who aren’t heavily invested in history, civ 5’s leader choices are the default ‘best leader choices’

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

it’s essentially self-confirming. People will claim anything different from Civ 5 is obscure bcs for most fans who aren’t heavily invested in history, civ 5’s leader choices are the default ‘best leader choices’

Right I mean he likes history too but as far as I can tell his interest got started thanks to Civ 5 where I started to enjoy it more in school and came into the actual Civ series later, due to my love for history.

Either way I agree that some leaders like Elizabeth are iconic and would make greater leader choices than maybe what we currently have for England. At the same time gameplay wise Teddy Roosevelt has been a lot of fun and more enjoyable over the more "iconic" George Washington.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Right I mean he likes history too but as far as I can tell his interest got started thanks to Civ 5 where I started to enjoy it more in school and came into the actual Civ series later, due to my love for history.

Either way I agree that some leaders like Elizabeth are iconic and would make greater leader choices than maybe what we currently have for England. At the same time gameplay wise Teddy Roosevelt has been a lot of fun and more enjoyable over the more "iconic" George Washington.

sometimes i think people forget that we can’t have the best leader for each civ every game, or the roster would be far more static. It’s nice that they rotate which leaders lead the civs every game

 

[Zaarin]

I think Jigonhsasee is a solid pick. Unless the native american civ is universally known in the US, it’s just far more likely that the Iroquois sell that pack, especially considering it’s likely the last pack in the NFP expansion

She's not an exciting choice, but she's an acceptable choice. It's a shame because Joseph Brant would actually tick a lot of the boxes for Team Tecumseh: the groundwork for creating a pan-Indian movement in the Old Northwest was started by Joseph Brant when Tecumseh was a boy. Tecumseh was deeply influenced by Brant, though he came to regard Brant as too moderate.

Zaarin, I'm fairly sure you misread what I posted, my exact phrasing was 'She doesn't have a very inspiring wikipedia page'.... I was agreeing with you she's a useless choice, not sure at all how you took what you did away from my post!

No, no, I was agreeing with you that she's not inspiring.

I'm confused what three Ancient Era civs you are talking about- I count only Gilgamesh and Dido as mythical ancient leaders. I presume by Ancient you are referring to prior to the classical era, and none of the classical era leaders are mythical anyway as far as I'm aware. The only other mythical leader I can think of in the game besides Gilgamesh and Dido is Kupe and he's far from being Ancient (unless you're saying that he's ancient in the context of Polynesian history I suppose).

I miscounted.

Zenobia would only work for me if she leads an Aramathean blob civ

*Aramaean. Arimathea was a city in Judah from which Joseph, the guy who helped Jesus carry his cross, came.

Either way I agree that some leaders like Elizabeth are iconic and would make greater leader choices than maybe what we currently have for England.

I do miss Lizzy. I just once want them to get her moody, mercurial, charismatic personality right. In Civ6 it's entirely possible her denounce animation could have been throwing her shoe at the camera.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I do miss Lizzy. I just once want them to get her moody, mercurial, charismatic personality right. In Civ6 it's entirely possible her denounce animation could have been throwing her shoe at the camera.

I didn't think she'd return as soon as I saw that the Sea Dog was England's UU. If it was the longbowman that would have been a different story and she could have got that as a LUU.
Same with Napoleon when they gave France his Imperial Garde as the UU.

 

[Red_warning]

Regarding the Sami and their status as hunter-gatherers and/or nomads, it's a little bit more complicated than that. In Scandinavia they have a long history of joining their countryment in the settlement of new urban centers, especially at the start of the northern renaissance era. Most towns in the north of Scandinavia got both Sami and Scandinavian names, and the Sami would periodically constitute the majority of the population in many of the northern towns, something that didn't change until the start of industrialisation, as when the value of timber and ore increased more Scandinavian settlers would arrive from the south.

In Sweden for instance there are quite a lot of towns with Sami names or Swedified Sami names, such as Jokkmokk, Gällivare or Jukkasjärvi.

 

[GenyaArikado]

"I didn't know about Semiramis until literally this thread but i literally used the word Asuphinabal(?) 14 times yesterday" people should stop being silly with their anecdotal experience.

Semiramis is factually better known literally since classic age because basically everything that didn't have a known maker in the Mesopotamian region got attributed to her.

Ultimately I'm always here for more women. Or all women. But even if i wasn't it'd be cooler than skinny Gilgamesh

 

[Pikachaoomega]

I see all over here that kublai and Vietnam are all but confirmed for the frontier pass, but I can't find the leak or data mining that shows that. What exactly was it that says they're in?

 

[Zaarin]

Semiramis is factually better known

Citation please. It seems to me you're passing on your own "silly anecdotal experience" as fact, especially since it coincidentally suits your agenda.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I see all over here that kublai and Vietnam are all but confirmed for the frontier pass, but I can't find the leak or data mining that shows that. What exactly was it that says they're in?

After Ethiopia someone found a readme txt file that mentioned Kublai and Vietnam. Similar ones were located in the other NFP files pertaining to the other existing packs. There's now a readme pertaining to Byzantium and Gaul as well.

But the Kublai/Vietnam readme was hot fixed into oblivion shortly after it was discovered.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Regarding the Sami and their status as hunter-gatherers and/or nomads, it's a little bit more complicated than that. In Scandinavia they have a long history of joining their countryment in the settlement of new urban centers, especially at the start of the northern renaissance era. Most towns in the north of Scandinavia got both Sami and Scandinavian names, and the Sami would periodically constitute the majority of the population in many of the northern towns, something that didn't change until the start of industrialisation, as when the value of timber and ore increased more Scandinavian settlers would arrive from the south.

In Sweden for instance there are quite a lot of towns with Sami names or Swedified Sami names, such as Jokkmokk, Gällivare or Jukkasjärvi.

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

 

[ButtBillionaire]

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

I don't know about that. I'd be surprised if that was the case, considering how much further south it is from what is traditionally regarded as Sápmi.

But what was said before goes for Norway as well. Many towns with Sámi or Norwegianified Sámi names, with Karasjok (Kárášjohka) and Kautokeino (Guovdageaidnu) being the most well-known. If you travel far enough into Finnmark, the place names around you eventually become exclusively Sámi.

 

[Patine]

But all of these nomadic groups, or their direct descendants, are now settled, in the modern day, settled in permanent cities and towns as their bases of nationhood, or, at least, ethnic territorial identity. Would "nomadic culture," with "mobile cities," eventually "settle down," sometime in the Industrial or Modern Age or would they be planned to be permanently "nomadic," and the chaos, handicap, and unrealism that would cause in the much later game? That's my concern, there.

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this post I made yesterday about what I see as the biggest issue with "nomadic civs," with "mobile cities," across the whole span of the game?

I don't know about that. I'd be surprised if that was the case, considering how much further south it is from what is traditionally regarded as Sápmi.

But what was said before goes for Norway as well. Many towns with Sámi or Norwegianified Sámi names, with Karasjok (Kárášjohka) and Kautokeino (Guovdageaidnu) being the most well-known. If you travel far enough into Finnmark, the place names around you eventually become exclusively Sámi.

And Murmansk, the big Russian Arctic Port.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I'm wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this post I made yesterday about what I see as the biggest issue with "nomadic civs," with "mobile cities," across the whole span of the game?

Sapmi is an established geographical region and the Saami were only partially nomadic, so as opposed to other nomadic civ choices, primarily the Inuit and Aboriginal Australians, Sapmi is far more likely and can actually be a good civ design

 

[Patine]

Sapmi is an established geographical region and the Saami were only partially nomadic, so as opposed to other nomadic civ choices, primarily the Inuit and Aboriginal Australians, Sapmi is far more likely and can actually be a good civ design

The two responses were to separate contexts. One was about a general nomadic civ idea discussed yesterday, the other was in response to original Sapmi including Murmansk. They weren't directly related to each other. I apologize for the confusion.

 

[AsH2]

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

Not even close.
Have you ever heard about the Nordic Bronze Age?

 

[Red_warning]

if i remember correctly, I believe Gothenburg was also founded by Saami settlers prior to the viking period

The Sami never lived that far south and the town itself was founded during the 1600s.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Citation please. It seems to me you're passing on your own "silly anecdotal experience" as fact, especially since it coincidentally suits your agenda.

I'm gonna throw my personal anecdotal experience in with Genya's. I think it's kind of a toss-up, but I would argue that Semiramis had a huge leg up in the popular consciousness for centuries over Ashurbanipal for the exact reason Genya stated: she was mythologized in European history to a much greater extent than Ashurbanipal. I mean, Ashurbanipal never had any operas written about him.

That said, I don't think being a European icon should give her any sort of advantage in leader selection.

 

[Zaarin]

I'm gonna throw my personal anecdotal experience in with Genya's. I think it's kind of a toss-up, but I would argue that Semiramis had a huge leg up in the popular consciousness for centuries over Ashurbanipal for the exact reason Genya stated: she was mythologized in European history to a much greater extent than Ashurbanipal. I mean, Ashurbanipal never had any operas written about him.

And if it were 1720, that might be a legitimate claim. In 2020, however, I doubt your casual gamer knows any opera beyond Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" and Mozart's The Barber of Seville, both from Looney Toons, neither featuring Semiramis. Whereas anyone who was paying attention in middle school history class should have at least heard the name Ashurbanipal a few times. I'm on Team Sennacherib (who has a pretty hefty pop history presence himself thanks to the Biblical depiction of his siege of Jerusalem and Lord Byron's poem) or Team Esarhaddon myself, but Ashurbanipal is probably the most famous Assyrian king now. Also NB both Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib are modern Assyrian culture heroes.

 

[AaronTBD]

I wonder if anyone has founded a leak yet on later packs.