[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[8housesofelixir]

I still think a Mong Dong would be cool. They were part of the Vietnamese navy for almost a thousand years and operated along the coast and rivers. I picture they would play like the Turtle Ship in Civ 5 replacing the Caravel but come earlier in the Medieval Era.

Mong Dong was very good in offensive-defense (meaning: ambush your enemies) but we all know that AI cannot figure out how to do a naval offensive.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Mong Dong was very good in offensive-defense (meaning: ambush your enemies) but we all know that AI cannot figure out how to do a naval offensive.

Well that didn't stop them from giving Byzantium Dromons.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Well that didn't stop them from giving Byzantium Dromons.

Ah, yes, Greek Fire with the range of a modern field cannon, my favorite kind of Greek Fire.

Mong Dong should be a melee unit though.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Mong Dong should be a melee unit though.

I agree. We haven't had a unique naval melee unit other than the Viking Longship and Bireme which both are available in the Ancient Era.

By the way the Mong Dong were equipped with cannons right? Even if they were melee I'm sure they would use cannons to attack just like the Caravel.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

So do we think we’ll get our MENA civ or our Native civ first (i.e. in November)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So do we think we’ll get our MENA civ or our Native civ first (i.e. in November)

Well timing wise a Native civ in November would coincide around Thanksgiving, but I don't know if they would do one because of that.

However the file name suggests something might come from North Africa.

I think the name is still a little misleading and could refer to Portugal. I know we just got two European civs but I'm not going to count it out yet.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

The Varu is a melee unit. I think it was a ranged unit in Civ 5.

That being said if Trung Trac is the leader I am hoping that Trung Nhi would ride an elephant as a Great General, because they were depicted as riding them into battle. Plus it would look cool.

I still think a Mong Dong would be cool. They were part of the Vietnamese navy for almost a thousand years and operated along the coast and rivers. I picture they would play like the Turtle Ship in Civ 5 replacing the Caravel but come earlier in the Medieval Era.

I am hoping for a Mong Dong too, even if that might make the Chola just a tad less likely in the future. Vietnam feels like it should be a coastal civ and be encouraged to explore and settle the Philippines on TSL maps, even if neither of those things are really on point historically.

I'm fine with the number of elephant units we have. But what we don't have is a Zamburak camel, which would be a pretty cool way to justify the Timurids.

So do we think we’ll get our MENA civ or our Native civ first (i.e. in November)

I think it's going to be a MENA civ in November, Asia in January, and then probably Portugal in March. At this point my optimism for a fourth new civ is waning and I wouldn't be surprised if the two unknown civs are just Portugal and Assyria.

Would much prefer we get the Cherokee or Navajo in November and the MENA civ in March though (or a ME civ and a NA civ, even better), with Portugal being put off for a second season.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I am hoping for a Mong Dong too, even if that might make the Chola just a tad less likely in the future.

Mong Dong is a strictly near-shore vessel, like every other important East Asian warships; on the other hand Chola had a blue-water navy and was able to operate in high seas for months.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Mong Dong is a strictly near-shore vessel, like every other important East Asian warships; on the other hand Chola had a blue-water navy and was able to operate in high seas for months.

Oh I know the two ships would function completely differently, practically opposites in fact. I just mean that Firaxis is stingy with maritime civs anyway and any naval UU in SE Asia would make the Chola less likely.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Oh I know the two ships would function completely differently, practically opposites in fact. I just mean that Firaxis is stingy with maritime civs anyway and any naval UU in SE Asia would make the Chola less likely.

Vietnam is definitely more coastal than China (in general) or Korea, but IMHO designing a civ that historically only had a defensive brown/green-water navy as a great maritime civ doesn't look like a good idea, even if that navy was powerful enough to fend off numerous invasions; it was still an inshore navy.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I am hoping for a Mong Dong too, even if that might make the Chola just a tad less likely in the future. Vietnam feels like it should be a coastal civ and be encouraged to explore and settle the Philippines on TSL maps, even if neither of those things are really on point historically.

I'm fine with the number of elephant units we have. But what we don't have is a Zamburak camel, which would be a pretty cool way to justify the Timurids.

I could see the chola getting an early caravel or even battleship (but obviously the battleship would be weaker if it was a battleship replacement) to reflect their speedy, armored navy

Zamburaks would be acceptable for the Afghans, Pashtuns, Ghaznavids or Mughals too

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Vietnam is definitely more coastal than China (in general) or Korea, but IMHO designing a civ that historically only had a defensive brown/green-water navy as a great maritime civ doesn't look like a good idea, even if that navy was powerful enough to fend off numerous invasions; it was still an inshore navy.

Something which I also agree with, however I think there could be different design space for a civ that wants to spread along a coast and then defend it with a minor naval UU bonus.

 

[mitsho]

As for most pop-culture impact, Vietnam may get a Vietcong Infantry unique unit. That way, Siam can get the machine gun elephant and Chola then a ship.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

As for most pop-culture impact, Vietnam may get a Vietcong Infantry unique unit. That way, Siam can get the machine gun elephant and Chola then a ship.

My problem with the Vietcong is that it's only use was fighting in a war against their own people. I don't know if that's a unique unit people would want to see.

Not to mention it would be a very late game unit with limited use.

 

[Jeppetto]

If they want to go full meme territory Vietman will have camouflage land unit for the "Americans scared when the trees start speaking Vietnamese" memes.

 

[TeddyMain]

If they want to go full meme territory Vietman will have camouflage land unit for the "Americans scared when the trees start speaking Vietnamese" memes.

The "Welcome to the Rice Fields!" Achievement: Using a Vietcong unit, defeat an American Corps or Army standing on a Jungle or Marsh tile.

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Please get back to the topic of the thread. Meme discussion is way off topic.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

As for most pop-culture impact, Vietnam may get a Vietcong Infantry unique unit. That way, Siam can get the machine gun elephant and Chola then a ship.

3/5 civs in NFP have 2 UUs right? What if Vietnam got Vietcong and a different, earlier UU as well

My problem with the Vietcong is that it's only use was fighting in a war against their own people. I don't know if that's a unique unit people would want to see.

iirc, the vietcong were first used against France.

And while from a literal perspective they were fighting against themselves, they ultimately were essentially used to push back the US and other powers which sought to overthrow the North Vietnamese govt and replace it (as they had in South Vietnam), so it did have an impact reminiscent of the defensive civ themes we’ve seen elsewhere.

 

[8housesofelixir]

If you want to have the Vietnam War reference, there is a Scout promotion called "Camouflage". Much better and useful than meme achievements IMO.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

3/5 civs in NFP have 2 UUs right? What if Vietnam got Vietcong and a different, earlier UU as well

Like Trung Nhi?

iirc, the vietcong were first used against France.

And while from a literal perspective they were fighting against themselves, they ultimately were essentially used to push back the US and other powers which sought to overthrow the North Vietnamese govt and replace it (as they had in South Vietnam), so it did have an impact reminiscent of the defensive civ themes we’ve seen elsewhere.

As far as I know the Vietcong was officially formed after the First Indochina war so they already achieved independence from France. That doesn't mean there weren't groups of infantry using guerilla tactics against France though.

I agree with the rest of the statement but I still am not sure if it's the best unique unit for them. If the Mong Dong plays like Civ 5's turtle ship it would be just as reminiscent of a defensive civ.

Plus I feel like it would make more sense if it was a Spec Ops replacement, in the recon line, than a standard melee infantry unit which might not be the best.