[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Abaxial]

I'm not complaining because two of my favorite civs, Australia and Dutch have modern leaders but Ho Chi Minh is a little too recent for me, barring any ideological affiliations.

How many ancient Australians can you name?

 

[Starina]

Given that Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin existed, I have to agree with you that Ho Chi Minh was far better in terms generally not massacring people.

Again this stereotype about Iosif Vissarionovich ... Where do you get this only ..? They lie to you monstrously.
I want to say that it doesn't matter to me who will be the leader of Vietnam, but the main thing is that his bonuses will be interesting. Like Byzantium or Babylon. Not necessarily OP, but interesting!
I can imagine Feraxis, reading our debate and beating the horse about Vietnam, laughing. I think there will be a medieval leader

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

How many ancient Australians can you name?

Ngurunderi, for one, for the Murray River indigenous peoples. But he'd be a bit mythological, like Kupe. For (oral) historical figures in Aus or Torres Strait, there's an issue here with avoidance speech around the names of the dead. History, as a catalog of information available to everyone and containing all the "facts" is not a politically or culturally neutral thing.

Further, there is a real issue that, for most of the world, colonialism takes a big chunk out of potential leaders. Indonesia, for instance, there's the Majapahit god-kings and the sultans of the various other kingdoms (Mataram, Aceh), then a giant stretch after the 1600s where it's Dutch governors and not "Indonesians," then Sukarno (a decent pick) and Suharto (a less-than-decent pick) in the mid-20th century. The history of most of the world is colonized, and it presents a problem for strategy games where one is supposed to play as "a [free] nation" (CK gets around this by having you play as an individual, not a nation; EU3 isn't that satisfactory, at least not yet, as vassalization and junior partnerships in royal unions aren't really *colonized* in the way that most of the world was). I look at a lot of historical 4X games and haven't really been happy with any of them, mostly because colonialism would require a player to somehow relinquish control in ways that might not be "fun".

 

[Henri Christophe]

How many ancient Australians can you name?

Some Aboriginal leader perhaps.

 

[LMT]

Again this stereotype about Iosif Vissarionovich ... Where do you get this only ..? They lie to you monstrously.

Books. That's where we get information about Stalin. Try one of these:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33864676-red-famine

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/224379.Gulag

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: Back to topic please. This thread is not about Stalin.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So far in NFP we've had two civs with primarily science bonuses: Babylon and Maya, religious bonuses: Ethiopia and Byzantium, as well as Byzantium and Gran Colombia having a domination focus.
What are the chances that Vietnam will join Gaul at being military(defensive) oriented and cultural?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

So far in NFP we've had two civs with primarily science bonuses: Babylon and Maya, religious bonuses: Ethiopia and Byzantium, as well as Byzantium and Gran Colombia having a domination focus.
What are the chances that Vietnam will join Gaul at being military(defensive) oriented and cultural?

I'd say 40%.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I'd say 40%.

Do you think that they will focus on other aspects or only one of military/culture if you think it's only a 40% chance?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Do you think that they will focus on other aspects or only one of military/culture if you think it's only a 40% chance?

Well, the Civilization will most probably a Cultural one, with the Leader giving the Defensive bonuses. Le Loi is still on the table, and I get I keep bringing him up, but he's just such an interesting character!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well, the Civilization will most probably a Cultural one, with the Leader giving the Defensive bonuses. Le Loi is still on the table, and I get I keep bringing him up, but he's just such an interesting character!

Well considering every civ gets a leader, I was including the leader in the civilization design.

 

[notNamed]

Well, the Civilization will most probably a Cultural one, with the Leader giving the Defensive bonuses. Le Loi is still on the table, and I get I keep bringing him up, but he's just such an interesting character!

But Le Loi is famous for losing defensive engagements, not winning them. He was doing a reconquest of Vietnam, he never had to defend it and his defensive capabilities destroyed an earlier rebellion of his.
A militarily aggressive Vietnam would be fairly in-line with a good portion of their history (Canton, Laos, Champa, Cambodia and Thailand all had the pleasure, for better or worse), but a defensively minded aggressive civ might just be a little more unique in the roster.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Well considering every civ gets a leader, I was including the leader in the civilization design.

Brainfart again. Anyway, I agree that Vietnam will most likely be focused on Military and Culture. I remember you putting forward a Vietnam idea, am I right?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Brainfart again. Anyway, I agree that Vietnam will most likely be focused on Military and Culture. I remember you putting forward a Vietnam idea, am I right?

Yeah though it was with Trung Trac as leader and Trung Nhi as her unique Great General. I guess that's out the window now.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

I think Vietnam's UI cannot be anything else other than the Water Puppet Theater, really. But maybe Firaxis can surprise me. If the WPT is their UI, they must skew towards a culture vic somehow.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think Vietnam's UI cannot be anything else other than the Water Puppet Theater, really. But maybe Firaxis can surprise me. If the WPT is their UI, they must skew towards a culture vic somehow.

I also thought about a unique shrine representing Vietnamese folk religion but I agree that water puppet theater seems more likely.

The shrine would probably have cultural elements too.

 

[notNamed]

I think Vietnam's UI cannot be anything else other than the Water Puppet Theater, really.

There's one-pillar pagodas if you want to represent the full shift to Buddhism of the earlier dynasties before the Ming invasion of Chinese, horrified that Vietnamese stopped worshipping the local spirits, who revived the folk religion.
Văn Miếu (not really unique, but neither are they to Korea so...) are an option if you want to go for science.
Militarily, you get the Viet Cong tunnel networks, but in much the same vein you could go with some of the citadels from later dynasties (star forts, but with stone pagoda towers, and enclosing a palace instead of a barracks).
As far as folk religion is concerned, you'd probably be looking at some sort of mountain cave structures.
I could also see a unique port, but don't quite know where that would draw its inspiration from. Possibly going off of the famous pirate heavens, though that's a shared feature with Cantonese coast and probably a little too specific to time and place.

There are options beyond water puppetry, but it's a fairly legit choice. Just kinda on the more abstract side... when is Japan getting onsen, BTW?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Văn Miếu (not really unique, but neither are they to Korea so...) are an option if you want to go for science.

Maybe we finally can get a unique library.

I could also see a unique port, but don't quite know where that would draw its inspiration from. Possibly going off of the famous pirate heavens, though that's a shared feature with Cantonese coast and probably a little too specific to time and place.

After having the Royal Navy Dockyard and Cothon I don't see this happening.

There are options beyond water puppetry, but it's a fairly legit choice. Just kinda on the more abstract side... when is Japan getting onsen, BTW?

Just like we have two unique harbor's in game we already have two unique bath infrastructure (Rome and Hungary).
Maybe Civ 7 if Finland doesn't get in with a sauna.

 

[8housesofelixir]

but in much the same vein you could go with some of the citadels from later dynasties (star forts, but with stone pagoda towers, and enclosing a palace instead of a barracks).

That is a model of Huế, the old imperial capital city that was exactly modeled after French style bastion forts (yes, the famous Vauban style fortifications), because the then Vietnam emperor (Emperor Gia Long) had a lot of French supporters and advisors who knew how to construct western fornications (Pierre Pigneau de Behaine, Victor Olivier de Puymanel, etc).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That is a model of Huế, the old imperial capital city that was exactly modeled after French style bastion forts (yes, the famous Vauban style fortifications), because the then Vietnam emperor (Emperor Gia Long) had a lot of French supporters and advisors who knew how to construct western fornications (Pierre Pigneau de Behaine, Victor Olivier de Puymanel, etc).

Vauban's bastions, ravelins, and counter-scarps. Had a chance to examine them courtesy of the US Army in 1967, mercifully being returned to the United States six months' ahead of the Tet Holiday of 1968, one of the more memorable celebrations in Vietnamese history - which is probably one reason that I'm still around to harass these Forums . . .