[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. Codeword Iroquois

    Codeword Iroquois Warlord

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    Hey, My current EU4 game has Trent owning Tirol and a decent portion of the Po Valley... and they didn't even conquer it themselves. So, in my non-professional opinion, It's possible.
     
  2. AntSou

    AntSou Deity

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    That's my feeling as well.

    Yep.

    edit: Alpha Centauri also had tile slopes though, didn't it? Or was it just visual? So more like Humankind.
     
  3. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    It did. The slopes themselves were separate squares, but they still counted as 'high ground' for the purposes of yields. One of many things from AC that Civ 7 should just shamelessly adopt (also includes: its diplomatic victory system and tech tree)
     
  4. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    Well I'm hardly claiming I'm being censored or anything, but you seem to be in fairly strong terms telling me that I'm contributing absolutely nothing to discussion.

    I'm "making extreme suggestions"? Uncompromising maybe, but you make it sound like I'm advocating terrorism lol. I have my opinion, you have yours. This logic of telling me not to complain about things I don't like makes zero sense to me. You seem to be saying I should 'moderate' my position, like this is some kind of important political matter. I don't need to accommodate for the views of others in formulating my own views, if I'm not persuaded by them. I never said this involves only one person, others are just as free to express their opinions.

    My 'extreme' position is just that I have no interest in seeing more leaders ruling two civilizations, I think it is a gimmick and I don't care for it. The point about them going out of their way is that, in many instances, a good potential leader choice (and yes, that is obviously subjective) may not be a ruler that can be used for two civs. There are plenty of kings that ruled multiple kingdoms, but that doesn't necessarily make them the best choice for any of the kingdoms they ruled. This is like with the gender debate- some degree of quota might make sense, but in general I'd rather they chose female leaders for civilizations where there are good choices. As opposed to having situations like with Gorgo, which to me isn't an interesting choice at all.

    Also in general, the whole multiple-civilization thing opens up many problems for consistency. Queen Victoria's United Kingdom included Scotland, so surely she could be a leader for them as well as England? Neither Scotland or England were distinct political entities in her time. You could argue England, the seat of the capital, was the primary realm, but I would say that typically all rulers would have had a primary base of power. You could argue Alexander could also be a leader for Greece, and even Persia and Egypt potentially. He separately held titles for these even, being crowned the pharaoh for instance.

    Admittedly Kublai is complicated because even though he moved his power center to China, he was a Mongol. Eleanor I would say is slightly confusing, because I'm not sure if her being a leader of France in the game is to reflect that she was in her own right duchess of Aquitaine, or because she was also queen of France, in which position she didn't have as much influence as she would as queen of England. But I think overall it isn't really clear which leaders do or do not fit this multiple civilisation option.
     
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  5. Jeppetto

    Jeppetto King

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    Sad Bibliotheke noises
     
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  6. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I would say that for a leader to possible lead "two" civs they would have had to establish some sort of capital, or seat of power, in those respective civilizations. That's probably why Eleanor and Kublai were chosen. Even if Eleanor only really wielded some "power "as queen of England, she was still queen of France. Victoria only ruled from London and Alexander's capital was only Pella, in Macedon. At least that's what I think the developers were going for.

    To be fair it excludes three others. :p
     
  7. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    The Grammar corrector in me is dying at the misspelling of Bibliotheque.

    But it doesn't exclude the possibility of building them.

    Constantine for Rome and Byzantium could be a good choice. :mischief:
     
  8. DogeEnricoDandolo

    DogeEnricoDandolo King

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    So if one day they want to code Victoria to be an alt leader for Scotland or India, go for it. It's literally free content. Forgoing the fact that the leader ability doesn't go with the rest of the civ's kit, literally who cares? Everybody likes free contents. Maybe there will be arguments in the beginning, like whether or not Victoria should lead India in game, but with time, everything will die down, and people will be content with what is given to them. After all, if all these leaders become alt leaders for another civ, it is just free new content to shake up the game.
    It is never Firaxis' agenda to pick a "good" leader, as they have made themselves very clear on that. Even if the alt leaders can only lead 1 civ, forced inclusion of certain leaders will still be a thing. Firaxis will pick whatever they think would be an interesting choice, so if they want to go outside the box with a decision, it almost has nothing to do with whether or not a leader should be allowed to lead 2 civs.
    So my suggestion was an alt leader should lead 1 new civ, 1 old civ, which is new, comprising idea to prevent the lack of hype when it comes to alt leaders. Your suggestion was that no one liked alt leaders, so the devs should just get rid of that. The fact no one likes alt leaders has been pointed out many times on literally every thread talking about alt leaders, because as I said people like as much content as possible, and an alt leader is just objectively less than a full civ, and Kublai Khan is priced similarly to a full civ, from an economic point of view, everyone knows this, even the devs. And the suggestion to get rid of alt leaders if there is more content to come just simply will not come true. What I said was your suggestion "added nothing new to the conversation." If you're upset by that statement, I sincerely apologize. While I should have phrased it better, I still think nothing in your previous comment (when all you said can be boiled down to "let's get rid of alt leaders") has not been beaten to death before.
     
  9. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    To be fair Bibliotek would be a better way of spelling it, as that's in Swedish, rather than French. :p

    Not sure if Constantine would work for a leader of Byzantium considering a separate Eastern Roman Empire did not exist yet.
     
  10. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    My understanding is that dual leaders lead two distinctly different polities at two distinctly different points in time. Kublai led Mongolia, and then after taking control of China he attempted to Sinicize so much that it's more proper to have called him emperor of China after that point.

    So Victoria wouldn't make much sense because she was queen of England and Scotland concurrently. However, James VI/I could feasibly fit the model because he was King of Scotland first, then unified Scotland and England, and then moved his seat of power to London, effectively making England the primary power in Great Britain.

    Similarly, Margaret I of Denmark could work, because she was queen consort of Norway first, then her marriage contract to King Haakon was terminated, then she became queen regent and ultimately queen of Denmark and Norway centered from the Danish throne.

    There are others, but my point is that the devs seem to have tried to strictly limit their selections to sovereigns who ruled distinct kingdom X, then at some later point ruled distinct kingdom Y. I think this is a smart choice because it eliminates consideration of many fuzzier options and ensures that the few who are selected feel equally "owned" by the respective civ/culture. And yes, between the actual effect of the Angevin period on English culture and Katherine Hepburn, Eleanor is sufficiently "English," just as much as CdM is French at any rate.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  11. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Better yet, we could make her the first Leader to lead three Civilizations in the Civ franchise: Norway, Sweden, and Denmark. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  12. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I mean to an extent your not wrong, but Kublai still continued to be khagan of Mongolia even when he moved to China, so it seems like it's a separate situation than Eleanor.
    Plus if Victoria was available for Scotland it would be a shame to leave out the possibility of leading India, Canada or Australia as well. ;)

    That's honestly one reason that I wouldn't be surprised if Maria I does come for Portugal she could reasonably lead Brazil as well, considering while she was queen her capital was moved from Lisbon to Rio de Janeiro.
     
  13. PhoenicianGold

    PhoenicianGold Emperor

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    Yeah, but she's not really that associated with Sweden as much as with Norway and Denmark. She was actual Queen of Denmark and fondly remembered in Norway. Sweden was just....collateral damage.

    I agree on the Victoria part. But I guess what makes Kublai unique is that he is still claimed as Chinese emperor by the Chinese as well, under his own dynasty. So I guess through a bit of historical retconning, the same idea as Eleanor can be achieved, but I can't really think of any monarchs like that.

    Yes, she would work for Brazil. Although, do we really want second leaders for England, France, China, Mongolia and....Brazil? There are at least half a dozen civs more deserving of a second leader than Brazil.
     
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  14. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    True. Just wanted to suggest that, given how we already have Leaders that can lead two Civilizations. Thought Firaxis could continue to push the boundaries with the number of Civilizations a single Leader could lead.
     
  15. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I agree. However so many people complain about Pedro in the game I don't think people would complain about another alternative. :mischief:
     
  16. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    We could have Pedro I as an alternate Leader as well. Pretty solid Leader, just really, really not as good as Pedro II.
     
  17. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    Said slopes also dictated the rainfall of the tiles, so tiles on the western side of slopes tended to be more fertile than those on the eastern side.
     
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  18. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    That was a thing in Alpha Centauri? Why on Earth have we not had that kind of granular climate in Civ 20+ years later?!
     
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  19. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    Yup!

    You could also design your own units. Pick a base mobility (infantry, cavalry, sea, air, what have you), weapon class, armor class, a couple of special traits, all of which would dictate the unit's cost.

    The tech quotes and wonder movies were read by the faction leaders, as well. It was bloody brilliant.
     
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  20. AntSou

    AntSou Deity

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    HUMAN BEHAVIOUR IS ECONOMIC BEHAVIOUR!

    Alright, settle down Morgan...
     
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