[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[onepurpose]

Those two could technically be considered part of the Germanic peoples, if you stretch your interpretation of Germanic peoples to an extent. The other two I agree with that they are not German.

Well .. goths where germanic peoples tribes..

None serious scholar would sustain today a identity Germany-HRE.. not even in the broader & arbitrary terms of Civilization VI

Austrians are German, but Czechs are Slavs.

King of Bohemia was a prince elector.. I'd say is part of HRE

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Well .. goths where germanic peoples tribes..

And..? No offense meant to you, but I never said they weren't Germanic if that is what you are getting at, nor do see how this is relevant to the discussion at hand.

King of Bohemia was a prince elector.. I'd say is part of HRE

I don't think he said otherwise...

 

[PhoenicianGold]

In reality, Venice is the only one I could see work and that's largely because of their "empire"-the rest are just better off as city states. Unless you use the name of the people/eventual county that could unify all of these ideas.

Eh, Genoa also had a maritime empire that rivaled Venice. They were actually being considered as a civ based on the game files, although I think the obvious answer as to why they were not included is that the devs likely wanted to prioritize new civ playstyles instead of just recycling Venice with a Genoese makeover. Also, Genoa doesn't have good leader choices.

 

[The Kingmaker]

None serious scholar would sustain today a identity Germany-HRE.. not even in the broader & arbitrary terms of Civilization VI

There’s cultural and linguistic continuity. I may be a citizen of the Bundesrepublik Deutschland, but my direct patrilineal ancestors lived and died in the HRE.

 

[Zaarin]

Well .. goths where germanic peoples tribes..

None serious scholar would sustain today a identity Germany-HRE.. not even in the broader & arbitrary terms of Civilization VI

You realize the German-speaking principalities that made up the HRE were referred to as Germany long before Bismarck, right? Also, you seem to be confusing Germanic and German. The Goths were Germanic, but they weren't German. No one here is trying to make the obtuse argument that Goths belong as part of the German civ. If they did, then Norway, Sweden, England, and arguably France ought to be as well.

King of Bohemia was a prince elector.. I'd say is part of HRE

I didn't say otherwise? Several Bohemians were Holy Roman Emperors.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Eh, Genoa also had a maritime empire that rivaled Venice. They were actually being considered as a civ based on the game files, although I think the obvious answer as to why they were not included is that the devs likely wanted to prioritize new civ playstyles instead of just recycling Venice with a Genoese makeover. Also, Genoa doesn't have good leader choices.

They even had colonies in the bloody Crimea and owned parts of Sardinia. You are right about the Genoese Leaders though... It's hard to find a good Genoese Leader.

 

[onepurpose]

Yes, but its leadership, core territory, and culture were always German. I think you're mistaking a commonwealth for a civilization when they are not at all the same thing.

I am not mistaking anything.

I know HRE core was Geman... I just pointed that Germany is portrayed (check CITY LIST) as "post-reunification" Germany .. nor HRE, nor Prussia, nor German Empire... and that the leader is a odd choice (as has been discussed in these forums)

 

[ManoftheHour333]

They were united eventually, though. That makes them different from the Celts. Also, the Celts inhabited areas from Anatolia to Iberia to Pannonia to the British Isles to Germany and etc. Italy is just one boot-shaped peninsula with a few islands to add. Not that hard to see why Italy is a better choice than the Celts, IMHO. Also, I'm pretty sure Celts in Anatolia had a different language than the Celts in Iberia.

My opinion is that we use Cities from a unified Italy, the Civilization Ability and probably the UI and UU can represent the Renaissance period of Italy, with one Leader representing the Industrial ERa Italy and a Leader representing the Medieval part of Italy.

I agree with this! Why don't we use all the tools in our toolkit instead of just the "best" ones as that's so subjective

I would go with a UA (Based on great people and trade) and a unique commerce hub/theatre square that references medieval/renaissance Italy. For the UU I would probably go with Genovese Crossbowman or an Ironclad UU from the 1800s...either would be fitting (Although now that we got a Crossbow UU with Vietnam I'm more inclined for the ironclad to get some love). But in terms of leader...while I personally would like to see a Medici or Borgia run the show, I think someone from the 1800s would be the best. They could get an ability to buy/annex city states, or just interact with city states/suzerain bonuses in a unique way-in this model, it'd make sense that a modern person would get a city-state ability given the Risorigimento, but would really hit onto a lot of italian history with it's city state drama. If we are graced with 2 leaders to run Italy I would definitely want a Renaissance one but given on how few alt leaders we've been getting I think it's safer to plan for just the one.

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

The Celts didn't share a common language or culture; that's the problem.

If we want to be precise modern Italian was codified in XIX and in the renaissance era, people from Sicily would struggle to understand people from Milan... Even today Italian has many dialects and my friend from Milan said that when his buddy from the Venetian region starts to speak 100% of his dialect he can't understand him. Culture aspect is also very disputable. If we are talking about the Celt tribe's differences, we should all the more speak about Italian C-S differences.

 

[Kimiimaro]

Also, Genoa doesn't have good leader choices.

Methinks Andrea Doria is a fairly good leader choice .

 

[The Kingmaker]

I am not mistaking anything.

I know HRE core was Geman... I just pointed that Germany is portrayed (check CITY LIST) as "post-reunification" Germany .. nor HRE, nor Prussia, nor German Empire... and that the leader is a odd choice (as has been discussed in these forums)

How do you differentiate between Aachen in Charlemagne’s day and Aachen the modern city? Virtually all modern German cities also existed in the 1st and 2nd Reichs...

Also, I think Barbarossa is a great leader choice.

 

[Zaarin]

If we want to be precise modern Italian was codified in XIX and in the renaissance era, people from Sicily would struggle to understand people from Milan... Even today Italian has many dialects and my friend from Milan said that when his buddy from the Venetian region starts to speak 100% of his dialect he can't understand him. Culture aspect is also very disputable. If we are talking about the Celt tribe's differences, we should all the more speak about Italian C-S differences.

I'm aware there are a number of language spoken in Italy, nor am I advocating for an Italian civ, in which I have no interest. I'm simply pointing out that if you dropped an Irishman in second century B.C. Bibracte he would be completely unable to communicate and suffer severe culture shock--and if you dropped a Gaul in a contemporary city among the Britons or Celtiberians he still wouldn't be able to communicate.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Methinks Andrea Doria is a fairly good leader choice .

Oh my...

Portrait of Andrea Doria as Neptune

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Methinks Andrea Doria is a fairly good leader choice .

And I'm immediately disproven. At least I get to read about another Leader...

Oh my...

Portrait of Andrea Doria as Neptune

Keep him away from the women, guys!

 

[Zaarin]

Could he, um, maybe hold that cloth a little higher please?

 

[ManoftheHour333]

If we want to be precise modern Italian was codified in XIX and in the renaissance era, people from Sicily would struggle to understand people from Milan... Even today Italian has many dialects and my friend from Milan said that when his buddy from the Venetian region starts to speak 100% of his dialect he can't understand him. Culture aspect is also very disputable. If we are talking about the Celt tribe's differences, we should all the more speak about Italian C-S differences.

While that's true, there was a type of everyday Italian language as far back as the 1300/1400s. Dante's "The Inferno" was written in vernacular Italian...just because it wasn't the same/ tough to understand doesn't mean it's 100% not the same language. I'm Italian-American and the language I speak with my parents/family is different than most other types I've seen/heard when I visited Italy (Or when I've spoken to motherland-Italians). And yet...I can still roughly understand the dialects and communicate. I've heard this is similar with most countries-but especially Latin ones (Catalonian/Spanish is another good example). But I think geographic region and shared history/heritage is more impactful than identical languages...I think that dividing people groups based on language is getting into some uncharted waters/opening some cans of worms...

 

[onepurpose]

How do you differentiate between Aachen in Charlemagne’s day and Aachen the modern city? Virtually all modern German cities also existed in the 1st and 2nd Reichs...

Also, I think Barbarossa is a great leader choice.

Aachen did exist in 1st, 2st and 3rd Reich and exists nowadays.. so what?

You like F. Barbarossa as german leader ? good for you But HRE is not Germany ...

Indeed , in CIV IV... Germany and HRE were separated Civs..

Enough for me ...

 

[ManoftheHour333]

Oh my...

Portrait of Andrea Doria as Neptune

Civ wouldn't...but then so should. XD

 

[Wielki Hegemon]

Probably because Renaissance era Italy is more interesting.

100% right. it's more interesting! But also as a downside, it has its own rules and historical context and it shouldn't be portraited as a one Civ if we want to refer to this particular period of time

 

[The Kingmaker]

I'm aware there are a number of language spoken in Italy, nor am I advocating for an Italian civ, in which I have no interest. I'm simply pointing out that if you dropped an Irishman in second century B.C. Bibracte he would be completely unable to communicate and suffer severe culture shock--and if you dropped a Gaul in a contemporary city among the Britons or Celtiberians he still wouldn't be able to communicate.

Whereas if you dropped a modern Italian from Florence into twelfth-century Venice, he’d know exactly where he was and would most definitely recognize it as his country in an earlier time.

He might struggle to make himself understood, but then again I don’t speak Middle English or Old High German either...