[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[sonicmyst]

I was actually thinking Ghana was a good possibility for Civ7 rather than Civ6, since FXS have already featured Mali (4 and 6) and Songhai (5), which overlap.

I suddenly think of Hausa Kingdom led by Daurama Daura but it will overlap Mali area as well. Good that she has an achievement Mother of Us All in CK3.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

I suddenly think of Hausa Kingdom led by Daurama Daura but it will overlap Mali area as well. Good that she has an achievement Mother of Us All in CK3.

Or if we want another Muslim Civ, we could have Usman dan Fodio lead a Sokoto Civilization.

 

[BD123]

I was actually thinking Ghana was a good possibility for Civ7 rather than Civ6, since FXS have already featured Mali (4 and 6) and Songhai (5), which overlap.

Hmm aside from the city list, I don't think the Songhai would overlap too much with Mali or Ghana. In Civ V they were a conquest oriented civ with combat buffs along rivers. Though they did have the Mandekalu as their UU, which Mali currently has.

For Islamic civs, they could always separate Arabia up, especially since then we could have an actual Arabia in Arabia and not in Egypt. Maybe one day I'll get my wish of a Safavid civ made true

I have mixed feelings about the Mughals as distinct from India unless they truly split split India into Maurya/Chola/Mughal etc.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I have mixed feelings about the Mughals as distinct from India unless they truly split split India into Maurya/Chola/Mughal etc.

I’d normally agree but at this point if we can manage to get Chola or Mughals alongside India in Civ 6, I’d be ecstatic

let alone deblobbing India into the 3 in Civ 7...like I said, that’s an instant buy for me

 

[Birch617]

besides the ones you mentioned, there’s a few others i’d suggest

Benin, being the kingdom of the Igbo, could be substituted for the Kingdoms of the Yoruba or Hausa (the other major ethnic groups of Nigeria) to represent West Africa.

The Jolof/Wolof empire would also be a good choice, occupying the weird niche of neither being exclusively an arab-speaking Saharan empire nor a subsaharan kingdom, as it geographically and culturally fills the gap between the two.

Ashanti, Oyó, Kane-Bornu, Somalia, Madagascar and Swahili, I also agree with.

Im iffy on Ghana the medieval kingdom just cuz geographically and playstyle-wise, i can’t imagine it filling a different niche than Mali—same reason why I wouldn’t choose Songhai (although in an ideal world where city list overlap was better addressed by Civ, and abilities could have more nuance to them, I’d love all three). Likewise, Angola under Ana Nzinga is appealing if not for the fact that it was a client state of Kongo under Mvemba and probably should only appear in Civ 7

Medieval Almoravid Morocco, the pre-Islamic Berbers or Modern Algeria would all be varying timeframes of the Berbers which, to me, could all have their perks to playing.

We also know far less about Medieval Zimbabwe than its successor state, the Mutapa empire, so I’d posit that as an alternative.

The kingdom of Buganda in the Great Lakes Region and the Swazi would also be interesting, although the Swazi, geographically and mechanically, don’t have much to offer different than the Zulu, so perhaps in Civ VII we can see them (I do disagree with the notion that South Africa’s largest indigenous group and most spoken indigenous language, not to mention its most historically prevalent state is historically irrelevant or unworthy of being a mainstay in the series though).

Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara , Botswana under Seretse Khama and Tanzania under Julius Nyerere are intriguing post-colonial test-cases as uniquely successful states (under those specific leaders), and while none of them really qualify as a civ (and Tanzania specifically would be better represented by a Swahili civ), they’re all unique cases that I wouldn’t mind appearing as representatives of the contemporary era in Civ.

If Burkina Faso was in the game, i would love for them to have Sudano-Sahelian Railway station as their unique infrastructure, i think the one in Bobo-Dioulasso is just so pretty

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Enrico Dandolo of the Venetian Empire

The Republic of Venice had 120 doges, so if we have to have again Venice in the game, don't make it the Enrico Dandolo civ, it would be best to try to find another leader (even if I had to admit, ENrico Dandolo, the 90-year-old blind man you took Constantinople would perfectly fit the "big personality" of Civ VI and probably Civ VII)

I think building districts on coast is cool but I don't think just one ability could equate the influence of all the other Italian city-states AND the Kingdom of Italy's influence

If you want a civ that can build districts on coast, why not the Dutch? They literally reclaimed territories over land and built cities on it for centuries. Way bigger achievement than simply having a city on a swamp (which Amsterdam also does). Everything thing coast-related that the Venitian did, the Dutch did it better and on bigger scales.

 

[pineappledan]

As far as the leader graphics go: The corners cut in NFP look bad because the previous models were so detailed and characterful. If, in Civ VII say, they went with less detailed leaders with more standardized parts, that could then be recombined to make new models, then it wouldn't break the in game immersion. I'd actually really like that if it meant more leaders in general (At least 2 per civ hopefully!) and made it easier for modders who aren't Sukritact to create passable leaders.

Sadly I think you're right. I just hope they keep it simple enough to make more leaders next time. Although I do think they could sell a simpler style if they sold it as part of a "make your own leader" feature. I guess Humankind is kinda doing that though, huh?

You've got me thinking about what if Firaxis released the next civ game with a character creator as a mod tool. Like there's the normal game with the leaders, but then there's a Soul Calibur 6-style character creation minigame that lets you import or change leaders:
https://www.vg247.com/2018/10/23/soulcalibur-6-character-creation-best/

With a slightly simplified, cartoony aesthetic, you can do a ton of mixing and matching to create somewhat accurate depictions of all kinds of leaders and characters.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

You've got me thinking about what if Firaxis released the next civ game with a character creator as a mod tool. Like there's the normal game with the leaders, but then there's a Soul Calibur 6-style character creation minigame that lets you import or change leaders:
https://www.vg247.com/2018/10/23/soulcalibur-6-character-creation-best/

With a slightly simplified, cartoony aesthetic, you can do a ton of mixing and matching to create somewhat accurate depictions of all kinds of leaders and characters.

Humankind has a character creator for its leaders.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Humankind has a character creator for its leaders.

Question as one who didn't get the OpenDev Lucy Preview: Do the Leaders age better than Civ 3's Leaders?

Moderator Action: We have a Humankind discussion forum, please use it instead of taking this thread off topic. leif

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Question as one who didn't get the OpenDev Lucy Preview: Do the Leaders age better than Civ 3's Leaders?

I cannot comment on that.

 

[pineappledan]

Humankind has a character creator for its leaders.

Yeah, but they don't do specific historical leaders. I'm saying Firaxis stay with the specific leaders, but that a character customization as a modding tool for would lower the bar for people trying to make passable custom leaders for civ.

Better than what you guys were discussing, like rolling all the way back to static painterly 2D portraits of leaders.

 

[Uberfrog]

For Islamic civs, they could always separate Arabia up, especially since then we could have an actual Arabia in Arabia and not in Egypt. Maybe one day I'll get my wish of a Safavid civ made true

Well only the Rashidun caliphate in Medina had its capital in Arabia. The Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates had their capitals in Damascus (Syria) and Baghdad (Mesopotamia) respectively. In this context Cairo makes as much sense, and is of course a perfectly appropriate capital for Saladin. It’s just the “Arabian Empire” is kind of an awkward name for the civ.

Also the Safavids were a Persian dynasty...

 

[Thenewwwguy]

If Burkina Faso was in the game, i would love for them to have Sudano-Sahelian Railway station as their unique infrastructure, i think the one in Bobo-Dioulasso is just so pretty

good shout. Burkina Faso doesn’t even register in terms of african civs but if they really wanted to pick a contemporary post-colonial african state, they would be my pick, as long as Thomas Sankara is the leader. Giving women equality long before any peer state, reducing poverty immensely, making Burkina Faso self-sustaining and replanting the deforested sahel-sahara boundary were really big accomplishments for a post-colonial leader in a time when the debt-crisis, French reliance policy and general regional corruption were everywhere.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

good shout. Burkina Faso doesn’t even register in terms of african civs but if they really wanted to pick a contemporary post-colonial african state, they would be my pick, as long as Thomas Sankara is the leader. Giving women equality long before any peer state, reducing poverty immensely, making Burkina Faso self-sustaining and replanting the deforested sahel-sahara boundary were really big accomplishments for a post-colonial leader in a time when the debt-crisis, French reliance policy and general regional corruption were everywhere.

For me, personally, Sir Seretse Khama would be the choice, although Sankara sounds like a good choice as well.

 

[Zaarin]

Better than what you guys were discussing, like rolling all the way back to static painterly 2D portraits of leaders.

No one was discussing that. We were discussing traditionally animated leaders instead of 3D animated.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

besides the ones you mentioned, there’s a few others i’d suggest

Benin, being the kingdom of the Igbo, could be substituted for the Kingdoms of the Yoruba or Hausa (the other major ethnic groups of Nigeria) to represent West Africa.

The Jolof/Wolof empire would also be a good choice, occupying the weird niche of neither being exclusively an arab-speaking Saharan empire nor a subsaharan kingdom, as it geographically and culturally fills the gap between the two.

Ashanti, Oyó, Kane-Bornu, Somalia, Madagascar and Swahili, I also agree with.

Im iffy on Ghana the medieval kingdom just cuz geographically and playstyle-wise, i can’t imagine it filling a different niche than Mali—same reason why I wouldn’t choose Songhai (although in an ideal world where city list overlap was better addressed by Civ, and abilities could have more nuance to them, I’d love all three). Likewise, Angola under Ana Nzinga is appealing if not for the fact that it was a client state of Kongo under Mvemba and probably should only appear in Civ 7

Medieval Almoravid Morocco, the pre-Islamic Berbers or Modern Algeria would all be varying timeframes of the Berbers which, to me, could all have their perks to playing.

We also know far less about Medieval Zimbabwe than its successor state, the Mutapa empire, so I’d posit that as an alternative.

The kingdom of Buganda in the Great Lakes Region and the Swazi would also be interesting, although the Swazi, geographically and mechanically, don’t have much to offer different than the Zulu, so perhaps in Civ VII we can see them (I do disagree with the notion that South Africa’s largest indigenous group and most spoken indigenous language, not to mention its most historically prevalent state is historically irrelevant or unworthy of being a mainstay in the series though).

Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara , Botswana under Seretse Khama and Tanzania under Julius Nyerere are intriguing post-colonial test-cases as uniquely successful states (under those specific leaders), and while none of them really qualify as a civ (and Tanzania specifically would be better represented by a Swahili civ), they’re all unique cases that I wouldn’t mind appearing as representatives of the contemporary era in Civ.

I think the Oyo are generally a better option than the Ashanti, given that they lasted longer, were a major influencer of the larger Yorubaland, and again catch some highly desirable Yoruba representation.

And I would support the Mutapa; actually I think anything Zimbabwean would better represent southern Africa than the Zulu.

If I had my druthers, our Africa map would pretty much look like this (except no Carthage because Phoenicia is great):

 

[The Kingmaker]

I think the Oyo are generally a better option than the Ashanti, given that they lasted longer, were a major influencer of the larger Yorubaland, and again catch some highly desirable Yoruba representation.

And I would support the Mutapa; actually I think anything Zimbabwean would better represent southern Africa than the Zulu.

If I had my druthers, our Africa map would pretty much look like this (except no Carthage because Phoenicia is great):

Those are all good choices.

I don’t think we’re ever losing the Zulu though, just because they’re a fan favorite.

Re: Carthage, I’d like to see some future incarnation of the civ use the multiple leader option to have both a Phoenician leader (presumably a Tyrian or Sidonian) and a Carthaginian.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Those are all good choices.

I don’t think we’re ever losing the Zulu though, just because they’re a fan favorite.

Re: Carthage, I’d like to see some future incarnation of the civ use the multiple leader option to have both a Phoenician leader (presumably a Tyrian or Sidonian) and a Carthaginian.

Eh, I prefer we keep multiple leaders for civs which endured many different iterations, and Phoenicia only barely breaks that threshold. I wouldn't prioritize it over giving India or China three leaders, or Arabia, Egypt, France, Germany, Russia, England, Persia, Ethiopia, or Rome/Byzantium two leaders. And it so happens that Dido straddles both so perfectly they're in a unique spot of not really needing two leaders to cover the basic idea of both civs.

Also, Hannibal is a little too pop-history for me, not to mention the elephant gimmick is a little overdone in VI.

Random aside: for a time I was really gunning for Arminius to be our second German leader, but it seems like Ambiorix is slant-filling that slot already. And in a weird way I kind of dig the switch-up; I never wanted the Gauls but they might be my favorite implemented civ in NFP aside from Ethiopia.

 

[The Kingmaker]

I did say some future incarnation. I’m not expecting another Phoenician/Carthaginian leader in VI. That was a proposal for VII.

Even if we do get one more DLC season, I wouldn’t expect more than one more extra leader for an existing civ, and Egypt, Rome, Russia and/or Germany are the low-hanging fruit.

 

[PhoenicianGold]

I did say some future incarnation. I’m not expecting another Phoenician/Carthaginian leader in VI. That was a proposal for VII.

I was also talking about VII or any future iterations that prioritize civs similarly to IV, V, or VI. Again, I just don't feel much need for Carthage and Phoenicia being represented, and Dido is just a really convenient staple leader.

Even if we do get one more DLC season, I wouldn’t expect more than one more extra leader for an existing civ, and Egypt, Rome, Russia and/or Germany are the low-hanging fruit.

I think there's a decent chance we could get two alternate leaders. Now that they've exhausted the only clear/good choices for dual leaders, I think the only direction for feature creep to go is two leaders lol.