[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

I do feel like the Inuit are less likely now that Canada's ability now applies to snow, if they wanted a snow civ, they wouldn't have given Canada snow related abilities. I really do think that if there was another NA civ, it would be PNW.
Anyways, I haven't seen anyone mention Elizabeth of Russia, although she is too closely related to Peter, I do think she could make a good candidate for Civ 7, I mean she almost wiped Prussia off the map as a great power.

Agreed. Inuit, Saami, anything subarctic is probably not going to happen. Unless, as I observed, they happened to have a seafaring element, which neither Canada nor Russia have.

Random question: do you live on or near the Pacific coast?
 
Empires almost always were both. But more importantly, we are talking about "empires" in the Civ VI, 4X gameplay sense, and whether a proposed civ's history syncs with an expansionist attitude.



I never said it was strictly limited to conquering. Wide also includes settling. It's almost as if you didn't read my post at all.



No, but how the player shapes their core empire certainly adds to ludohistorical resonance. Players look at Russia's larger city tiles or Japan's close-knit districts or Spain's colonies on other continents and think "yeah, that feels right." It's why Venice felt like Venice in V, it's a large reason why Scotland doesn't feel like Scotland in VI, and it's why a Haitian empire practically demands a tall playstyle because its imperial effect was cultural, not territorial.



While I agree that Haiti "has a shot," I still generally disagree with the unsaid assumption that VI's overall design sensibility is unchanged from V, which had Venice, and could accommodate Haiti. So far the "smallest" civ we have is the Maya, and that is nowhere near the level of tall play of Venice. VI seems to have overall moved every civ toward having a higher city count (a change which I feel was unnecessarily limiting), and until we see some number crunching to accommodate truly tall civs (Khmer may be a start?) I see no reason to believe that Venice or Haiti can exist in VI. Much as I wish that were not the case, because as this discussion reveals, VI has been extremely restrained in its civ designs and there exists a lot of untapped design space.

I disagree with your temporal regions on the same basis: outside of the usual massive civs like Ottomans/Byzantium and Macedon/Persia, we haven't seen any geographic overlap. And if there was substantial political/cultural continuation, civs have tended to be just blobbed together (see Germany/HRE, Angevin empire (Norman England and Francia with England and France), Maurya and India, Silla and Goryeo, Qin and Yuan, etc. etc.). I think based on that trend, the Mughals would be more likely lumped in as a third Indian leader, and the USSR as a second Russian leader. I even think the trend is so strong that Kievan Rus' could end up being a Russian leader.

I think your "speculation" areas are all fairly unlikely. Much as I want Burma, I do acknowledge current political affairs might be preventing inclusion. And the rest all feel like city-states or alternate leaders. As for the "ascended" civs, we technically already have several in Scotland (the Gaels) and the Maori (New Zealand); I think this hits on several reasonable civs we could hope for: Bulgaria, Oman, Chola. I even think Switzerland is a dark horse option, even though I would prefer it remain a city-state (as should have Belgium...).


Scotland is a Branched Civ and Mäori are the Slant for Polynesia

Temporal overlap doesn’t mean spatial overlap...I thought that was clear.

If you believe my speculation areas are unlikely...I can’t really imagine which Civs they would bring in since it was rather globally comprehensive. They have been increasingly paying attention to cultural “dead zones” on the map.
 
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Scotland is a Branched Civ and Mäori are the Slant for Polynesia

Yes, they are. But they also happen to basically take the spot of proposed ascended civs. Which means in the off-chance we happened to get Ireland or New Zealand, those would be considered both ascended civs and slant civs with respect to Scotland and Maori.

So Scotland and Maori occupy a similar dual role where they are already "ascended" civs representing the Gaels and New Zealand, but also branched/slant civs in their own right.

Temporal overlap doesn’t mean spatial overlap...I thought that was clear.

I understood whatever you were going for, but I still hold that however you term it, it isn't very likely to happen. India and Russia are blobby and are more likely to have Mughal and USSR leaders than to invite completely different civs.
 
Yes, they are. But they also happen to basically take the spot of proposed ascended civs. Which means in the off-chance we happened to get Ireland or New Zealand, those would be considered both ascended civs and slant civs with respect to Scotland and Maori.

So Scotland and Maori occupy a similar dual role where they are already "ascended" civs representing the Gaels and New Zealand, but also branched/slant civs in their own right.



I understood whatever you were going for, but I still hold that however you term it, it isn't very likely to happen. India and Russia are blobby and are more likely to have Mughal and USSR leaders than to invite completely different civs.

OK, but my question is then

“What possible Civs do you think are most viable?” since you said my list (of “all possible Civs that they would choose from”) was unlikely
 
Scotland is a Branched Civ and Mäori are the Slant for Polynesia

Temporal overlap doesn’t mean spatial overlap...I thought that was clear.

If you believe my speculation areas are unlikely...I can’t really imagine which Civs they would bring in since it was rather globally comprehensive. They have been increasingly paying attention to cultural “dead zones” on the map.
Agree about Maori. I don't necessarily see them as a substitute for New Zealand, though. That role went to Australia as being the more popular out of the post-colonial civs for the region to depict.

Scotland occupies a weird design space as it kind of ascended from the Celts blob from Civ 5, while occupying another niche which I can't really put my finger on other than maybe they'll start alternating British Isle civs, other than England?
That being said I think it does occupy the same space that an Irish or Welsh civ would take up, so I don't see them happening in Civ 6. I can definitely see Ireland though in Civ 7.
 
OK, but my question is then

“What possible Civs do you think are most viable?” since you said my list (of “all possible Civs that they would choose from”) was unlikely

Of what you listed and based on overall state of Civ VI? In order of likelihood:

Returning civ slots:

* Renaissance Italy slot (Venice/Genoa/Tuscany/Papal States)
* Morocco slot (Berbers/Numidia/Maghrebi)
* Shoshone slot (Navajo/Apache)

Ascended civs (again, the Gaels and New Zealand are already satisfied by the Maori, and Switzerland is just too perfect as a city-state):

* Bulgaria
* Oman (Swahili/Zanzibar)
* Chola

Civ Colonization (Taino were passed over for city-state because of linguistic issues; Tupi would compete with Brazil for a rainforest niche and we would more likely see something on the Guarani side of the Tupi-Guarani spectrum):

* Apache (or Navajo, or even the Comanche as a literal slant from Shoshone)
* Cherokee

"Speculation":

* Burma (political problems but otherwise one of the last great imperial powers yet to be included)
* Yoruba/Igbo/Benin/Hausa/Ashanti (a highly requested region with the biggest issue being too many options and none of them being exceptionally better than the rest)

Possible civ federations (Scythia is kind of a broad placeholder for Tatars/Cumans, and Lithuania is already blobbed into Poland):

* Turan/Pashtun/Kushan/Timurids (probably the least likely on the list now that we have Samarkand as a very recently implemented city-state).

None of your temporal region civs (outside of Italy, which really would only get by on Venice precedent and sheer marketability).

* (South Africa) (much less likely than the others, because even though we could see a Dutch colonial civ balancing out Australia/Canada/Brazil/Colombia, the Zulu seem to presumptively hold the power in that region)

I do agree with you that they are filling in cultural dead zones. Which is why I think these options are far more likely than any other civs because they cover pretty broad cultural zones in a way that most of the other civs on the roster do (except Scotland. Dumb Scotland.)
 
Scotland occupies a weird design space as it kind of ascended from the Celts blob from Civ 5, while occupying another niche which I can't really put my finger on other than maybe they'll start alternating British Isle civs, other than England?
That being said I think it does occupy the same space that an Irish or Welsh civ would take up, so I don't see them happening in Civ 6. I can definitely see Ireland though in Civ 7.
As interesting as a Welsh civ would be, I think it's pretty unlikely to ever happen (but then again I'd have said the same about a Scottish civ before R&F...). I agree that Ireland is very likely in Civ7.
 
* Renaissance Italy slot (Venice/Genoa/Tuscany/Papal States)
* Morocco slot (Berbers/Numidia/Maghrebi)
* Shoshone slot (Navajo/Apache)
Assuming we don't get anymore content I have feeling that the Mapuche might end up taking the Shoshone slot as another "horse raider" civ from the Americas, despite them being in South America this time around.
Would not be surprised at this point if Venice and Morocco were one-offs.

* (South Africa) (much less likely than the others, because even though we could see a Dutch colonial civ balancing out Australia/Canada/Brazil/Colombia, the Zulu seem to presumptively hold the power in that region)
In comes Suriname as the Caribbean civ we never thought we'd get. :lol:

As interesting as a Welsh civ would be, I think it's pretty unlikely to ever happen (but then again I'd have said the same about a Scottish civ before R&F...). I agree that Ireland is very likely in Civ7.
Well I said that before with Georgia, up until the reveal video, and look what happened. :crazyeye:

The only other civ that could possibly get a Longbowmen UU besides England however is tempting, not to mention the city names. :mischief:
 
Assuming we don't get anymore content I have feeling that the Mapuche might end up taking the Shoshone slot as another "horse raider" civ from the Americas, despite them being in South America this time around.
Would not be surprised at this point if Venice and Morocco were one-offs.

Venice I could forgive, Morocco I could never.

I also have been considering the Mapuche as kind of a heavily slanted Shoshone, just like the Cree are basically a mechanically evolved version of the Iroquois.

However, that could change in retrospect, the same way that I thought Scotland was our Celtic civ and Georgia was a better version of Byzantium (which it STILL IS DAMMIT).

In comes Suriname as the Caribbean civ we never thought we'd get. :lol:

I think I just had an aneurysm.
 
Venice I could forgive, Morocco I could never.
Part of me kind of thinks that mechanically, Mali could easily fill the desert/trading niche that Morocco had, while geographically fill the gap that Songhai had. That being said they could easily design a Moroccan/Berber civ differently.

That being said theoretically you could say that Nubia could be the second civ from North Africa, though not from the Maghreb which most people want. :dunno:

However, that could change in retrospect, the same way that I thought Scotland was our Celtic civ and Georgia was a better version of Byzantium (which it STILL IS DAMMIT).
Well more like Ethiopia became a better version of Georgia, while Byzantium became a better version of Spain. Now Georgia and Spain are just better versions of their previous selves. :crazyeye:
 
Part of me kind of thinks that mechanically, Mali could easily fill the desert/trading niche that Morocco had, while geographically fill the gap that Songhai had. That being said they could easily design a Moroccan/Berber civ differently.

I think there are things the Moroccans/Berbers could do differently. Numidian/Berber Cavalry would be a horseman replacement. Could have a ghorfa as a granary replacement, be spread out like the Gauls, focus on water management. The only big hurdle I think they would need to leap is finding a victory path niche that isn't trade routes. I guess they could go cultural, but then they just start to feel like "desert Gaul." They did have a tendency to worship megalithic structures, so maybe religious with a natural wonder bonus, encourage land exploration?

That being said theoretically you could say that Nubia could be the second civ from North Africa, though not from the Maghreb which most people want. :dunno:

I just see Nubia as "second Egypt." So it could never occupy that space for me.
 
I think there are things the Moroccans/Berbers could do differently. Numidian/Berber Cavalry would be a horseman replacement. Could have a ghorfa as a granary replacement, be spread out like the Gauls, focus on water management. The only big hurdle I think they would need to leap is finding a victory path niche that isn't trade routes. I guess they could go cultural, but then they just start to feel like "desert Gaul." They did have a tendency to worship megalithic structures, so maybe religious with a natural wonder bonus, encourage land exploration?
Considering I want the Berbers more, I see them as a civ that mainly wants to thrive and settle in the desert just how Inca needs mountains, and now Canada needs tundra.
I can see desert farms, full housing if city is within 3 tiles of an oasis as well as district adjacencies to oasis? This sort of makes them a generalist civ.

In regards to trading, there hasn't been a civ that gets bonuses for traders passing through your cities/trading posts to reach another civ so maybe they could receive bonuses for that?
 
In regards to trading, there hasn't been a civ that gets bonuses for traders passing through your cities/trading posts to reach another civ so maybe they could receive bonuses for that?
*sad Sogdia noises*
 
In regards to trading, there hasn't been a civ that gets bonuses for traders passing through your cities/trading posts to reach another civ so maybe they could receive bonuses for that?

while that sounds like the perfect Sogdia ability, as @Zaarin pointed out, it doesn’t sound like something that would be mechanically useful in civ considering most maps wouldn’t operate in a manner where that ability would get much usage

having an ability rely on the actions of the Civ AI doesnt sound like a good idea either
 
while that sounds like the perfect Sogdia ability, as @Zaarin pointed out, it doesn’t sound like something that would be mechanically useful in civ considering most maps wouldn’t operate in a manner where that ability would get much usage
Well it was the only other trading ability for them I could think of. :dunno:
To me it doesn't sound too horrible, except if Portugal is on the map. :shifty:

having an ability rely on the actions of the Civ AI doesnt sound like a good idea either
Probably why they got rid of Georgia's Protectorate War ability. :mischief:
 
Considering I want the Berbers more, I see them as a civ that mainly wants to thrive and settle in the desert just how Inca needs mountains, and now Canada needs tundra.
I can see desert farms, full housing if city is within 3 tiles of an oasis as well as district adjacencies to oasis? This sort of makes them a generalist civ.

In regards to trading, there hasn't been a civ that gets bonuses for traders passing through your cities/trading posts to reach another civ so maybe they could receive bonuses for that?

Problem is that Mali is already a "desert" civ, and that is right next door. We would need some substantially different desert bonuses to make them feel different. Desert farms could work to a degree; I think some sort of oasis/lake bonus is a must. But I think they would want to move away from trade route bonuses and more toward...Gran Colombia? :dunno:

Probably why they got rid of Georgia's Protectorate War ability. :mischief:

*shakes fist at you*
 
Sorry, I finally decided to register to this Forum after lurking over it for 5 years or so, now.
What moved me to this decision was that I still see lots of people asking for Italy, while it is clearly not feasible because basically Italy as a unitary state is too young and has not enough solid leaders to be picked. Can anyone suggest me a place where I could open a thread with my personal idea of how to solve the "Italy case" so that I can have feedbacks from you?
Thanks in advance for answering!
 
Sorry, I finally decided to register to this Forum after lurking over it for 5 years or so, now.
What moved me to this decision was that I still see lots of people asking for Italy, while it is clearly not feasible because basically Italy as a unitary state is too young and has not enough solid leaders to be picked. Can anyone suggest me a place where I could open a thread with my personal idea of how to solve the "Italy case" so that I can have feedbacks from you?
Thanks in advance for answering!
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Civ - Ideas & Suggestions
 
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