[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

Thanks, heh. It was many years ago and I forget much, but in the only class where I learned about him he seemed to only reference himself as the Mongolians 2.0

I could see a design like Persia's where the leader ability is war-focused but the civ ability is geared towards science, culture, or faith.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I could see a design like Persia's where the leader ability is war-focused but the civ ability is geared towards science, culture, or faith.

That reminds me of the second post-script to my Chingiz Khan/Mongols class (which playing Civ inspired me to take), Babur.

If they're still looking for "Big Personality" leaders he would be a trip.

Epic poetry? Tower of skulls? Crazy drug with his buddies while out on campaign? What kind of mood will he be in when you talk to him today?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Palmyra when?

Ummm...I meant the Byzantines.
Speaking of Palmyra it's already a Roman city, though that doesn't necessarily matter.

 

[Morningcalm]

Assuming each pack represents a region and Pack 1 represented South and Central America

May: S&C America: Maya and Colombia

July: North Africa pack? Sub-saharan Africa pack? Africa Pack? I’m hoping it’s North Africa so we can get the Shona or Swahili but I doubt.

September: The most likely candidate for two civs is Asia as a whole, but I could imagine Asia getting 3 civs, with two representing one region in this pack, like the Middle East or Mesopotamia, plus an east asian civ later. It could also theoretically be two European civs, like Portugal and Byzantium.

November: just one civ could be Portugal representing Europe, or a Native North American civ

January: This seems like what would be the east/central asian civ pack, simply cuz those would be the regions which would fit with either Korea or Mongolia, assuming those are the two major candidates for a second leader.

March: Again, could be Europe or North America, or perhaps it could be another Asian civ. This could also be a second African civ, whether that be ‘Southern Africa’ if Ethiopia represents North Africa or ‘Saharan Africa’ if Ethiopia represents Sub-Saharan Africa

That means, in September, imo, what is most likely is we’ll see two middle eastern civs. So maybe we’ll see two of Babylon, the Hittites, Palmyra/Syria Oman and Assyria. If they count the Byzantines as middle eastern, perhaps them.

November, I’d guess, would be like July, where the interest can afford to be lower, since it would come off a pack, assuming September is the middle east, that would generate a lot of interest, like how Ethiopia was less hyped up than Maya and Colombia. That to me sounds like they wouldn’t put the European civ here, so I’d guess this’ll be the Native civ, whether that be the Iroquois, Navajo or a PNW nation.

January is the big one, with the alt leader, likely Kublai Khan. My guess is they’ll pick a civ with some connection to Mongolia, China or Kublai in that capacity, so perhaps the Timurids or Vietnam.

March is the final one, so they’d want to maintain interest, so I’d make a wager that this is where we see the most commonly requested civs: Portugal or the Byzantines

It’s completely possible that we only see one middle eastern civ and two european ones though. I can’t say that there isn’t some of my bias in here.

July is Ethiopia, per the original announcement.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

July is Ethiopia, per the original announcement.

I know, I was just wondering as to what region ethiopia may represent

I could see a design like Persia's where the leader ability is war-focused but the civ ability is geared towards science, culture, or faith.

I’d imagine being Samarqand-focused would give them a trade civ ability, perhaps with a science or culture twist, like ‘international trade routes you send get +3 gold, +2 science, +1 culture and +5% religious pressure for each luxury resource in each city that they pass through’, to reflect the silk road

That reminds me of the second post-script to my Chingiz Khan/Mongols class (which playing Civ inspired me to take), Babur.

If they're still looking for "Big Personality" leaders he would be a trip.

Epic poetry? Tower of skulls? Crazy drug with his buddies while out on campaign? What kind of mood will he be in when you talk to him today?

Babur leads the Gurkhani and the Mughals in civ 6

although, the tower of skulls thing always seemed more ‘Timur’ to me

I could imagine it would be a LUI

So:

Timur — Gurkhani/Timurids/If Firaxis is feeling particularly blobby, Uzbekistan:

UA: Trade Revolves Around Samarqand: Your International Trade Routes gain +3 gold, +2 science, +1 culture and +5% religious pressure for each luxury resource in a city it passes through. International Trade Posts give +10 more trade range to the trade routes

UI: Silk Road: Unique Improvement replacing the Railroad, but available after study of Stirrups. Can be made by builders for one charge.

UU: Tumen: Replaces Courser. -25% production cost. +5 combat strength compared to a courser

LA: Descendent of Genghis, Ancestor of Babur: Gurkhani military units gain the ability to make the Skull pyramid improvement once in their lifetimes. Units with promotions cost 50% to upgrade

LUI: Skull Pyramids: Can be built by any military unit in enemy territory. Units next to or on top of Skull Pyramids have +5 combat strength. Cannot be built next to another skull pyramid. -1 amenity for the city, -2 population when built.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I know, I was just wondering as to what region ethiopia may represent

Ethiopia has always been considered Sub-Sahara Africa.

If we get anything else it will probably be from North Africa, which I am okay with or without one. If I had choose it would preferably be any Berber Kingdom.

UU: Tumen: Replaces Courser. -25% production cost. +5 combat strength compared to a courser

Since the courser is a GS unit, there won't be a UU replacement for it in the pass, since they aren't using any expansion content for the new Civs.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Ethiopia has always been considered Sub-Sahara Africa.

If we get anything else it will probably be from North Africa, which I am okay with or without one. If I had choose it would preferably be any Berber Kingdom.


Since the courser is a GS unit, there won't be a UU replacement for it in the pass, since they aren't using any expansion content for the new Civs.

oh you’re right. Maybe it can be a knight replacement, or a medieval light cav

 

[PhoenicianGold]

Ethiopia has always been considered Sub-Sahara Africa.

If we get anything else it will probably be from North Africa, which I am okay with or without one. If I had choose it would preferably be any Berber Kingdom.


Since the courser is a GS unit, there won't be a UU replacement for it in the pass, since they aren't using any expansion content for the new Civs.

Some of the UUs don't actually replace anything, even if they share the same era with them (Crouching Tiger, Keshig, War-Cart, Varu, Maryannu, Winged Hussar, Rough Rider, Berserker, Khevsur, Samurai, Garde Imperiale, Redcoat, Malon Raider, Mountie). And some units are available in different eras despite having no general equivalent (Sakha Horse Archer, and some of the above which don't replace). Combining this together, I don't see why they can't make a unit that replaces nothing in the base game, but may or may not replace the courser in GS.

I like the Tumen and generally the civ design. I wouldn't think we would get skull pyramids though when more likely we would get Mughal forts or some more lasting structure.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Some of the UUs don't actually replace anything, even if they share the same era with them (Crouching Tiger, Keshig, War-Cart, Varu, Maryannu, Winged Hussar, Rough Rider, Berserker, Khevsur, Samurai, Garde Imperiale, Redcoat, Malon Raider, Mountie). And some units are available in different eras despite having no general equivalent (Sakha Horse Archer, and some of the above which don't replace). Combining this together, I don't see why they can't make a unit that replaces nothing in the base game, but may or may not replace the courser in GS.

I like the Tumen and generally the civ design. I wouldn't think we would get skull pyramids though when more likely we would get Mughal forts or some more lasting structure.

mughal forts would fit better if we picked a leader who was the transition, like Babur or Humayun. Skull Pyramids are pretty uniquely and distinctively timurid.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

So, if I understand well and try to summarize all we babbled about (correct me if I'm wrong): the civs peoples would want the most to see (or at least those whom we hear about the most) are:

Timurids
Byzantines
Babylon/Assyria/Something that is not Sumer but in the same region but not based upon one literary text
Italy
Portugal
Austria
Kubilai Khan as an alternate leader for Mongolia and possibly China
Iroquois
Navajo (even if it would be apparently impossible)
Swahili
Morocco
Vietnam
Burma
Hawai

And since I'm a bloody eurocentrist that already has difficulties to remember names and places east of the Iron Curtain, could please somebody else summarize for the ones I forgot!

 

[pokiehl]

So, if I understand well and try to summarize all we babbled about (correct me if I'm wrong): the civs peoples would want the most to see (or at least those whom we hear about the most) are:

Timurids
Byzantines
Babylon/Assyria/Something that is not Sumer but in the same region but not based upon one literary text
Italy
Portugal
Austria
Kubilai Khan as an alternate leader for Mongolia and possibly China
Iroquois
Navajo (even if it would be apparently impossible)
Swahili
Morocco
Vietnam
Burma
Hawai

And since I'm a bloody eurocentrist that already has difficulties to remember names and places east of the Iron Curtain, could please somebody else summarize for the ones I forgot!

I'd be careful about using this list to define "civs people want to see the most." For lack of a better term, this thread is securely an echo chamber for a small group of posters (not to seem overtly negative; I'm just saying the same few people are the ones replying to this thread and discussing the same things over and over, and that this should not be misunderstood as a community consensus).

That list, for instance, is not great to me. I don't have any interest in "Timurids" or Kublai Khan or Hawaii or Burma, etc. My ideal NFP has Hittites/Assyria, Babylon, Portugal, Byzantines, Siam, and Oman, as well as an alternate leader for Netherlands (if it MUST be an R&F civ...I'd much prefer an alternate leader for Egypt).

 

[AntSou]

How's Kublai Khan actually perceived in China? Would he be able to drive sales?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Some of the UUs don't actually replace anything, even if they share the same era with them (Crouching Tiger, Keshig, War-Cart, Varu, Maryannu, Winged Hussar, Rough Rider, Berserker, Khevsur, Samurai, Garde Imperiale, Redcoat, Malon Raider, Mountie). And some units are available in different eras despite having no general equivalent (Sakha Horse Archer, and some of the above which don't replace). Combining this together, I don't see why they can't make a unit that replaces nothing in the base game, but may or may not replace the courser in GS.

I realize that. Even if it is a light cavalry unit I doubt they would tie it into a courser replacement if you are playing GS, because they said that only base game mechanics were needed to play the civs. If anything you would probably build both a courser and the UU, just like Poland can build both Knights and Winged Hussar in the Medieval era.

Navajo (even if it would be apparently impossible)

Why would the Navajo be apparently impossible? Are you maybe confusing them with the Pueblo?

How's Kublai Khan actually perceived in China? Would he be able to drive sales?

Considering he is the founding member of the Yuan Dynasty, it seems at least he was recognized as an actual leader. Today's perception I'm not sure about.

 

[pokiehl]

How's Kublai Khan actually perceived in China? Would he be able to drive sales?

I can't imagine it would go over well with many people. Obviously it's impossible to generalize, but many Chinese view the Yuan dynasty as a brutal dark age or at least view it as an occupying foreign dynasty. Anecdotally, the Chinese friends I've asked about this would not be in favor of it and one likened it in offense to officially having Victoria as an alternate leader for India.

 

[Francel]

Byzantium is my most wanted, as I have said before. Here’s hoping they make it in. A little trebuchet and greek fire, anyone?

Byzantium was well-represented in the recent tomb raider reboot game, for anyone who might be interested. (Rise of the tomb raider).

 

[riddleofsteel]

Byzantium is my most wanted, as I have said before. Here’s hoping they make it in. A little trebuchet and greek fire, anyone?

Byzantium was well-represented in the recent tomb raider reboot game, for anyone who might be interested. (Rise of the tomb raider).

Agreed about Byzantium and the last Tomb Raider game.

 

[Hakan-i Cihan]

For a Central Asian civ (Timurids/Ghaznavids/Karakhanids/Kushans/Sogdians/Hepthalites whichever it would be) my proposal is to make trade routes from other civs and your own as if there are already trade posts available in your lands (Central asian civ) from the start of the game + some bonus (culture/science/gold) for every trade route going trough your cities. Call this UA the Silk road.

 

[AntSou]

I've been seeing this whole Kublai thing from an European perspective, i.e, without taking into consideration the sensibilities of consumers in that part of the world, which would in turn affect the willingness of Firaxis as a business to pursue that path.

I no longer think Kublai is likely as an alt for China, regardless of how popular he may seem among fans. It doesn't sound like smart marketing.

So if not as an alt for China, would they prioritise an alt for Mongolia? Maybe, but suddenly Netherlands, Scotland and Korea all sound more likely.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I no longer think Kublai is likely as an alt for China, regardless of how popular he may seem among fans. It doesn't sound like smart marketing.

So if not as an alt for China, would they prioritise an alt for Mongolia? Maybe, but suddenly Netherlands, Scotland and Korea all sound more likely.

He still makes more sense to me as an alt leader even if it is for just Mongolia, than Scotland, Netherlands, or Korea.
We just had Eleanor so I don't know if they would give us another alt. leader from Europe so quickly. Plus you would take away Netherland's trading bonuses if you got rid of Wilhelmina.
Also Seondeok plays well with the rest of Korea's bonuses that I don't know how another leader would change it up, unless you focus it not on science, which wouldn't mesh well.

For a Central Asian civ (Timurids/Ghaznavids/Karakhanids/Kushans/Sogdians/Hepthalites whichever it would be) my proposal is to make trade routes from other civs and your own as if there are already trade posts available in your lands (Central asian civ) from the start of the game + some bonus (culture/science/gold) for every trade route going trough your cities. Call this UA the Silk road.

Speaking of the Silk Road it could also be a plausible leader ability for Kublai Khan too and synergize with the civ ability Ortoo.

 

[AntSou]

We just had Eleanor so I don't know if they would give us another alt. leader from Europe so quickly.

I think alts are an easy way to milk revenue from national markets which are already represented in the game. Exception to these would be Ancient Civs like Greece, Rome or Egypt, which have wider appeal.

Eleanor was a pretty ingenious addition. Two of the most important markets targeted with a single leader which differ in appearance in only two elements: the hair and the crown.

Persona Packs are an extension of the same concept with even less investment being required, and unsurprisingly it is again directed at two of their main markets: US and France.
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In my opinion a Mongolia alt would have neither the wider interest that an alt for Rome and Egypt can muster, nor localised interest akin to Chandragupta.

Plus you would take away Netherland's trading bonuses if you got rid of Wilhelmina.
Also Seondeok plays well with the rest of Korea's bonuses that I don't know how another leader would change it up, unless you focus it not on science, which wouldn't mesh well.

This may all be secondary considerations. If it makes sense from a marketing perspective, they'd make it work.

Netherlands: Adding a leader to the Netherlands would also give some incentive to update Wilhelmina's ability, which is pretty underwhelming atm. It should provide +2 Loyalty per trade route. The Netherlands has a population of 17 million.

Korea: Korea is consistently regarded as boring. I understand the argument that simplicity makes it easier for the AI to handle, but ultimately it's replayability which should count the most. Unlike Wilhelmina, I don't think they should change Seondeok. Leaders in the game should vary in degree of complexity, and Seondeok's ability is simple enough for new players to handle.

A new leader for Korea would accomplish two things:

a) Address the desire of players who want a more complex approach to the Science path; (although this was already addressed with Maya);

b) Appease the national sentiments of Koreans and potentially drive sales in that country. Regardless of how one might personally feel about this, I feel it's a very strong point.

Scotland: It's a Commonwealth nation. Although there's only 5 million living in Scotland, There's a significant Scottish diaspora AND I suspect commonwealth leaders are favoured in other commonwealth / anglophone countries.

So a leader for Scotland would, I speculate, be favoured in important markets such as Britain (outside Scotland) and the US. It may be yet another way to indirectly target those markets.