[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Codeword Iroquois]

I'm so glad you mentioned this. In my hypothetical third expansion design I had this as a mechanic and any new city founded by Assyria, with the free settler after conquest, would be the majority ethnicity of the conquered civ.

I'm hoping that maybe they tack it on into a game mode maybe released with Assyria but that might be wishful thinking.

One could extend that to Babylon, as well: When they capture a city it a: becomes automatically of Babylonian ethinicity. and b: The lost pops go to the Capital as pops of Babylonian religion, but retaining their original ethnicity.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

One could extend that to Babylon, as well: When they capture a city it a: becomes automatically of Babylonian ethinicity. and b: The lost pops go to the Capital as pops of Babylonian religion, but retaining their original ethnicity.

would ethnicity tie into the happiness system? loyalty system? would it determine chances of random partisans popping up? how do you design it so that genocide isn’t preferable in the game? would tribal villages, unclaimed land (which abstractly is probably land owned by minor nations not shown on the map), barbarian outposts and city states have ethnicities? Do ethnicities develop obed time even within a nation, or does a nation only get one ethnicity

I think it’s an interesting idea with some potential but also a very complicated topic that could easily go wrong.

 

[agonistes]

D

would ethnicity tie into the happiness system? loyalty system? would it determine chances of random partisans popping up? how do you design it so that genocide isn’t preferable in the game? would tribal villages, unclaimed land (which abstractly is probably land owned by minor nations not shown on the map), barbarian outposts and city states have ethnicities? Do ethnicities develop obed time even within a nation, or does a nation only get one ethnicity

I think it’s an interesting idea with some potential but also a very complicated topic that could easily go wrong.

Didn’t civ iii have this?

I remember a player did a campaign with the intention of spreading his culture to every city or something like that.

If you open the city viewer, it gives you a pop breakdown of each citizen’s culture.

 

[Zaarin]

One could extend that to Babylon, as well: When they capture a city it a: becomes automatically of Babylonian ethinicity. and b: The lost pops go to the Capital as pops of Babylonian religion, but retaining their original ethnicity.

Oy, vey.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

would ethnicity tie into the happiness system? loyalty system? would it determine chances of random partisans popping up? how do you design it so that genocide isn’t preferable in the game? would tribal villages, unclaimed land (which abstractly is probably land owned by minor nations not shown on the map), barbarian outposts and city states have ethnicities? Do ethnicities develop obed time even within a nation, or does a nation only get one ethnicity

I think it’s an interesting idea with some potential but also a very complicated topic that could easily go wrong.

My idea is that it would tie into culture victory and tourism.

Tribal villages and barbarians don't have one but major civs and city-states do.

Once one of your cities grows they are categorized into a cultural group/ethnicity, whatever you want to call it. If the city is originally yours it has a greater chance of being from your own civ. If it a conquered city it has more of a chance to be of the culture group of that conquered city although it would fade in time. To make it simple it's easier to use the name Indians when referring to the citizens of India.

Other factors such as distance between cities, trade routes, open borders, harbor districts and buildings, aerodrome districts and buildings can cause other groups of people to move in. City-state citizens never leave even when conquered.

For example civs like the Ottomans will have a multicultural empire and lets say they end up conquering a lot of Korean cities in a game. That will end up helping Korea late game because during peace time many Ottomans would want to travel to Korea as visiting tourists after being exposed to Korean culture for awhile.

 

[8housesofelixir]

IMHO the problem with ethnicity is, if you want to do something other than a semi-static, culture and loyalty based game mechanic, things can go both complicated and wrong very quickly, even linking ethnicity to religion can surely open the gate of chaos although that's how things work IRL. Keep it as an additional mechanism or modify the culture system in general would be fine.

 

[Zaarin]

IMHO the problem with ethnicity is, if you want to do something other than a semi-static, culture and loyalty based game mechanic, things can go both complicated and wrong very quickly, even linking ethnicity to religion can surely open the gate of chaos although that's how things work IRL. Keep it as an additional mechanism or modify the culture system in general would be fine.

Once again, I think Endless Space 2 is an excellent model here where every citizen has an ethnicity, where emigration/immigration can happen across open borders, and where events can introduce new ethnicities. They maaaaay want to think twice about having ethnicities have unique effects, though. It's all well and good to say Eyder produce extra money on gas giants, but if you start suggesting Arab citizens produce extra Gold from working Desert tiles you start to get into sketchy territory.

even linking ethnicity to religion can surely open the gate of chaos although that's how things work IRL.

Depends on time and place. Ethnoreligious minorities are, well, minorities in the modern world (hence the term) where a great deal of the world belongs to universalist religions (saying someone is a Christian or a Muslim tells you nothing about their ethnicity, even if there are ethnoreligious minorities attached to both of them--like Assyrians or Hui respectively.); in the ancient world, however, yes, a Babylonian surely follows the Babylonian religion, etc.

 

[Jeppetto]

They maaaaay want to think twice about having ethnicities have unique effects, though. It's all well and good to say Eyder produce extra money on gas giants, but if you start suggesting Arab citizens produce extra Gold from working Desert tiles you start to get into sketchy territory.

I always wondered If the reason why we lack Gold-giving Worship Building when Synagouge would be nice fit was mechanical or they just thought it would sound inappropriate? Tbh, there is a story in Bible about Jesus getting angry at bunch of merchants in a "temple" so it could be excused. It triggers me there's no Gold-giving Worship Building, when all other yields have one (If you count Cathedral technically for both Culture and Tourism).

 

[Zaarin]

I always wondered If the reason why we lack Gold-giving Worship Building when Synagouge would be nice fit was mechanical or they just thought it would sound inappropriate? Tbh, there is a story in Bible about Jesus getting angry at bunch of merchants in a "temple" so it could be excused.

Honestly I think pure Faith is perfect for the Synagogue because no other activities other than prayer or reading of the Tanakh are permitted in the Synagogue--completely unlike churches, mosques, etc. which are used for other community events. I do agree a Gold-granting worship building would be nice. As a Protestant, I'd be quick to suggest the basilica: "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from Purgatory springs." (On a more politic note, an Egyptian Hypostyle or the like could work well for that.)

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Once again, I think Endless Space 2 is an excellent model here where every citizen has an ethnicity, where emigration/immigration can happen across open borders, and where events can introduce new ethnicities. They maaaaay want to think twice about having ethnicities have unique effects, though. It's all well and good to say Eyder produce extra money on gas giants, but if you start suggesting Arab citizens produce extra Gold from working Desert tiles you start to get into sketchy territory.


Depends on time and place. Ethnoreligious minorities are, well, minorities in the modern world (hence the term) where a great deal of the world belongs to universalist religions (saying someone is a Christian or a Muslim tells you nothing about their ethnicity, even if there are ethnoreligious minorities attached to both of them--like Assyrians or Hui respectively.); in the ancient world, however, yes, a Babylonian surely follows the Babylonian religion, etc.

Agree about that. I think it’s just generally odd that Civ doesn’t have an event system, and seeing how Humankind is tying the event/decision system to a 4-axes/8-values type government system, I’m realizing that civ is actually quite bland in many of its mechanics in that respect. Ethnicity/religion being tied to an event system would be cool.

Honestly I think pure Faith is perfect for the Synagogue because no other activities other than prayer or reading of the Tanakh are permitted in the Synagogue--completely unlike churches, mosques, etc. which are used for other community events. I do agree a Gold-granting worship building would be nice. As a Protestant, I'd be quick to suggest the basilica: "As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from Purgatory springs." (On a more politic note, an Egyptian Hypostyle or the like could work well for that.)

i’d imagine the kovil, provided that we’re not getting a south indian nation in this game, would be a good gold fit for the game, since many idols are gold-clad, take donations, etc. maybe 2 faith, 2 food, 2 gold.

 

[8housesofelixir]

I always wondered If the reason why we lack Gold-giving Worship Building when Synagouge would be nice fit was mechanical or they just thought it would sound inappropriate? Tbh, there is a story in Bible about Jesus getting angry at bunch of merchants in a "temple" so it could be excused. It triggers me there's no Gold-giving Worship Building, when all other yields have one (If you count Cathedral technically for both Culture and Tourism).

Many of the Asian religious buildings - esp. those in Taoism, Shintoism, and Chinese Buddhism temples/shrines - have a wooden coin box in front of it to collect offerings. The boxes are called 功德箱 (merit box) in Chinese and 賽銭箱 (offering coins box) in Japanese; during temple visiting/worshiping practices the visitors are supposed to put a very small amount of coins into it as offerings, hoping to gain some merit or small auspicious powers. The coins are part of the income of these temples.

(Similar to throw coins in a fountain for good fortune, but it's in a temple.)

That can be the basis of a gold generating religious building.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Once again, I think Endless Space 2 is an excellent model here where every citizen has an ethnicity, where emigration/immigration can happen across open borders, and where events can introduce new ethnicities. They maaaaay want to think twice about having ethnicities have unique effects, though. It's all well and good to say Eyder produce extra money on gas giants, but if you start suggesting Arab citizens produce extra Gold from working Desert tiles you start to get into sketchy territory.

No that's definitely overcomplicated.
I just see it as another possible lens that can maybe help determine what you need to do regarding trying to win a culture victory. No need to add even more stereotypes in the game.

I always wondered If the reason why we lack Gold-giving Worship Building when Synagouge would be nice fit was mechanical or they just thought it would sound inappropriate? Tbh, there is a story in Bible about Jesus getting angry at bunch of merchants in a "temple" so it could be excused. It triggers me there's no Gold-giving Worship Building, when all other yields have one (If you count Cathedral technically for both Culture and Tourism).

I thought about that too but it would be nicer to have the Mandir, a Hindu place of worship, as a gold-giving worship building as they were often used as treasuries for the local community.

Speaking of other religious buildings that I can (would like to) see happening and don't have a corresponding type yet:
Honden (Shinto): +2 appeal
Basilica: +1 Governor Title?
Miao (Chinese Temple): +2 Culture (if you count the cathedral as tourism only)
Deresar (Jainism): +1 Loyalty (known for having the strongest tradition of Asceticism)

 

[Xandinho]

I think Mandir, Mortuary Temple, Khalwat and maybe Candi could be places of worship as well.

Edit. Speaking of it, Cathedral needs urgently a buff, maybe a wild card slot or some generation of tourism per turn, but this really needs an upgrade.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think Mandir, Mortuary Temple, Khalwat and maybe Candi could be places of worship as well.

Edit. Speaking of it, Cathedral needs urgently a buff, maybe a wild card slot or some generation of tourism per turn, but this really needs an upgrade.

Mandirs would be good, as would Kovils, which I earlier mentioned. A shinto shrine would be a cool tier-3 worship building, as maybe a mesoamerican temple akin to one of the ones in Tenochtitlan or Teotihuacan

 

[Zaarin]

Edit. Speaking of it, Cathedral needs urgently a buff, maybe a wild card slot or some generation of tourism per turn, but this really needs an upgrade.

Agreed. Religious art is the absolute easiest to theme; any Religious art I get is going straight in an art museum.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Agreed. Religious art is the absolute easiest to theme; any Religious art I get is going straight in an art museum.

would be cool if cathedrals also got relic slots, or got theming capabilities for religious art

 

[Zaarin]

would be cool if cathedrals also got relic slots, or got theming capabilities for religious art

While I've never used up all my Relic slots because Relics are just too hard to come by (another complaint I have), a Relic slot plus a boost to Religious tourism would make them much more appealing.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

While I've never used up all my Relic slots because Relics are just too hard to come by (another complaint I have), a Relic slot plus a boost to Religious tourism would make them much more appealing.

have you heard the good word of the void singers and our lord and savior Cthulhu?

 

[8housesofelixir]

would be cool if cathedrals also got relic slots, or got theming capabilities for religious art

Since relic is largely a Catholic* thing this makes so much sense.

*It's also a huge thing in Eastern Orthodox, but IIRC we don't have a corresponding religious building for them, even their idea of how a church building should function is very different from Catholic/Protestant ideas.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Since relic is largely a Catholic* thing this makes so much sense.

*It's also a huge thing in Eastern Orthodox, but IIRC we don't have a corresponding religious building for them, even their idea of how a church building should function is very different from Catholic/Protestant ideas.

basílica functionally would be more orthodox than catholic or protestant given they’re more common in the eastern orthodoxy, i suppose, if we had them

Just had a thought re: ethnicities. What if Cyrus’s personal ability was one which “created” a second ethnicity which spread via pressure when he conquers his first capital, to replicate him freeing the Jews in Babylon. It would benefit his culture game while maintaining a domination edge