[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[Zaarin]

Including the angry lick finger and flip page animation? I'd buy the whole Pass again just to see that one on clay tablets.

He's...tasting the clay. Never write your magnum opus on anything short of the finest vintage clay.

 

[reddishrecue]

Bolívar was in the list of Great Generals before NFP, now we have Gran Colombia and his position is being replaced by José de San Martín. Which is a clever replacement choice.

Yeah, Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin both were New Spain civilization leaders from civ 4 colonization.

 

[Navelgazer]

Thinking about Assyria, I agree that they should be military/science, or possibly military/culture, as reflected through their LUA and UI/UB, but I'm thinking about something I think came from Dan Carlin's Hardcore History, though maybe elsewhere, describing them as a culture that put so much emphasis into never losing a battle, that once they finally lost one, the façade crumbled.

As a CUA, I propose something like, "Extra faith, gold, science, culture, loyalty and combat unit effectiveness from Golden and Heroic Ages. Minus extra gold, faith, culture, science, loyalty and combat unit effectiveness from Dark or Normal ages (after the Ancient Era.) Extra Golden Age points spill over. Bonus Golden Age points for capturing enemy cities. When an enemy captures an Assyrian city, Assyria immediately enters a Dark Age."

Like, they can string powerful golden ages together as long as they keep conquering, but the loss of one city can throw them into a devastating dark age.

 

[Potworny]

Including the angry lick finger and flip page animation? I'd buy the whole Pass again just to see that one on clay tablets.

I'd buy all the EPs for all my friends if it happened. I can't get the image out of my head. Picture a giant Gilgamesh-ish looking dude flipping a tablet, staring you down unbothered by the deafening thunk of the gigantic blocks of clay. That'd require a little bit of additional animation work though, I reckon.

On the topic of Irene, having read up on her, I think like her more than Theodora now. Her civilopedia entry is already fun:
Other than blinding and thus killing her son Constantine, her role in promoting and expanding the silk industry is perhaps her greatest accomplishment.
She really just is everything and then some more to be a Civ VI leader.
Seriously though, I think that she'd be a good foundation for a unique appearance of Byzantium.

There's also another interesting aspect of this - whose animations could she reuse? We should probably strictly base our assumptions of the new leaders (and therefore civs) on the looks of ones we already have. If we are stuck with the reusal of animations, new models won't be able to differ to much from some existing ones. On the other hand, for example, if Ashurbanipal was based upon Gilgamesh, wouldn't it be too on the nose? I suppose it adds a little spice to our guessing game.

And I wonder whether Archie and Frank are dead.

 

[WillowBrook]

If we get a separate Byzantium civ, I am actually expecting Irene, for several reasons:

1) She's different from Theodora.
2) She would focus on a less religious, trade-oriented angle, making Byzantium feel different from both V's iteration and VI's Georgia/Russia.
3) She would come from a period more distinct from early "Roman" Byzantium, better justifying the split this time around.
4) She was actually empress regent for a time, so if there were any criticisms of Theodora not being a sole sovereign, they are avoided.

Yes, and the fact that she's already in the game shows she's on their radar.

There's also another interesting aspect of this - whose animations could she reuse? We should probably strictly base our assumptions of the new leaders (and therefore civs) on the looks of ones we already have.

I hope not Tamar. As much as I love that her meme got her in the game, I don't like her haughty portrayal. Cleo would work for Theodora but I'm thinking not for Irene. Maybe Dido?

 

[Zaarin]

There's also another interesting aspect of this - whose animations could she reuse?

CdM or Seondeok, I think.

On the other hand, for example, if Ashurbanipal was based upon Gilgamesh, wouldn't it be too on the nose?

Gilgamesh's animations should never, ever be reused. Not because they're too good but because they're too abominable to have even been used once. I could see him using Suleiman's, or perhaps Saladin's. Both are suitably haughty.

I hope not Tamar. As much as I love that her meme got her in the game, I don't like her haughty portrayal.

Haughty is not the word for Tamar's portrayal. She's downright paranoid.

 

[Navelgazer]

CdM or Seondeok, I think.

Seondeok, I imagine. CdM's movements rely so hard on her champagne flute that they'd be distractingly recognizable.

 

[Zaarin]

CdM's movements rely so hard on her champagne flute that they'd be distractingly recognizable.

Irene could have a goblet or chalice of some kind.

 

[Potworny]

Irene could have a goblet or chalice of some kind.

CdM seems non-reusable to me as well, her snobby clapping when she's friendly could just as well be a part of her leader ability.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

Thinking about Assyria, I agree that they should be military/science, or possibly military/culture, as reflected through their LUA and UI/UB, but I'm thinking about something I think came from Dan Carlin's Hardcore History, though maybe elsewhere, describing them as a culture that put so much emphasis into never losing a battle, that once they finally lost one, the façade crumbled.

As a CUA, I propose something like, "Extra faith, gold, science, culture, loyalty and combat unit effectiveness from Golden and Heroic Ages. Minus extra gold, faith, culture, science, loyalty and combat unit effectiveness from Dark or Normal ages (after the Ancient Era.) Extra Golden Age points spill over. Bonus Golden Age points for capturing enemy cities. When an enemy captures an Assyrian city, Assyria immediately enters a Dark Age."

Like, they can string powerful golden ages together as long as they keep conquering, but the loss of one city can throw them into a devastating dark age.

that might be really hard tbh, can you imagine getting screwed over for the rest of the game just for getting a normal age, which is really common, especially on higher difficulties??

 

[Zaarin]

CdM seems non-reusable to me as well, her snobby clapping when she's friendly could just as well be a part of her leader ability.

I think it's cheapening all the leaders that they're reusing animations, but it's a thing that's happening.

 

[Thenewwwguy]

I think it's cheapening all the leaders that they're reusing animations, but it's a thing that's happening.

if redlining existing animations makes it cheaper and easier to make more leaders, I don’t mind.

Just to think about which leaders some of my personal requests could reskin:

Manuelito — Matthias Corvinus

Rajaraja or Rajendra Chola — Chandragupta Maurya, Peter, Shaka

Chief Seattle — Gandhi

Dihya — Gorgo, Jadwiga

Alexios (if we have to have the Byz) — Matthias, Lautaro, Peter

Timur — Genghis, Hojo

Ashurbanipal/Sennacherib/Hamurabbi/Nebuchadnezzar: Shaka, Chandragupta, Trajan

Puduhepa: Cleopatra/Jadwiga


And then for the more likely/oft requested options:

Kublai — Genghis, Qin, Musa

Trung Trac: Seondeok, Jadwiga

 

[Zaarin]

I really, really don't want to see Jadwiga's animations reused. Her girlishness is kind of charming on her, but I don't want a game full of teenage girls.

Chief Seattle — Gandhi

Gandhi's hippie troll routine really wouldn't suit anyone else.

 

[LoneRebel]

that might be really hard tbh, can you imagine getting screwed over for the rest of the game just for getting a normal age, which is really common, especially on higher difficulties??

How about if it's a small penalty for Normal Ages and a large penalty for Dark Ages?

That ability essentially means getting a Dark Age means a lost game, though. Or maybe it'll be possible to recover.

 

[Navelgazer]

that might be really hard tbh, can you imagine getting screwed over for the rest of the game just for getting a normal age, which is really common, especially on higher difficulties??

1. To be clear, in no way do I imagine this to be their Assyria deign, at least in NFP. It would require another asterisk for "requires Rise + Fall" if nothing else. But.
2. I can see getting rid of the Normal Age malus I proposed, but I still like it. This version of Assyria would play like a jump-started "all or nothing" Civ, with of course strong Ancient-era UU and UI/UB to support it. It would be able to compete with Amanitore and Gilgamesh in the ancient era, while getting not just the bonuses from the uniques themselves, but the GA points from building them. The proposed CUA would strongly encourage players to do everything they could to gain golden age points, regardless of what era they're in, as fast as possible, but mostly through conquest (which feels accurate to the Assyrian/Neo-Assryian Empire) while making the administration and defense of their empire more important, and more difficult, as the game goes on.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Thinking about Assyria, I agree that they should be military/science, or possibly military/culture, as reflected through their LUA and UI/UB, but I'm thinking about something I think came from Dan Carlin's Hardcore History, though maybe elsewhere, describing them as a culture that put so much emphasis into never losing a battle, that once they finally lost one, the façade crumbled.

As a CUA, I propose something like, "Extra faith, gold, science, culture, loyalty and combat unit effectiveness from Golden and Heroic Ages. Minus extra gold, faith, culture, science, loyalty and combat unit effectiveness from Dark or Normal ages (after the Ancient Era.) Extra Golden Age points spill over. Bonus Golden Age points for capturing enemy cities. When an enemy captures an Assyrian city, Assyria immediately enters a Dark Age."

Like, they can string powerful golden ages together as long as they keep conquering, but the loss of one city can throw them into a devastating dark age.

That's interesting but these new civs have to be compatible with the base game, so if there is someway to tie the bonuses to not require R&F mechanics it can work.

Though now that I think about it, it would be interesting for a civ that could get extra yields for certain eras, like Italy:
Extra yields for Classical, Renaissance, Modern and Information while normal or minus yields for Ancient, Medieval, Industrial, Atomic Eras.

Trung Trac: Seondeok, Jadwiga

Gitarja could work as they both would be warrior queens.

 

[Zaarin]

Gitarja could work as they both would be warrior queens.

Agreed: if Vietnam is led by a woman, she'll use Gitarja's animations.

 

[Potworny]

Gitarja could work as they both would be warrior queens.

Doesn't Gitarja do a culture-specific gesture when she becomes friendly with you? Would it fit a Vietnamese ruler?

That's why I think some rulers have completely un-reusable animations, because they are too specific for them and their cultures. Pedro, Amanitore and Cyrus and plenty of other leaders have more generic animations that I can see being reused, but it probably would be harder to apply to some of the other leaders.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Doesn't Gitarja do a culture-specific gesture when she becomes friendly with you? Would it fit a Vietnamese ruler?

If that is specific to Java/Indonesia I didn't know it. I'm not so sure that the new leaders use all old animations either, so that particular one wouldn't need to be used.

 

[6uho Koe]

If that is specific to Java/Indonesia I didn't know it. I'm not so sure that the new leaders use all old animations either, so that particular one wouldn't need to be used.

She moves too much like a Javanese/ Balinese dancer, which the artist and animator probably looked at videos of Indonesian dancers. It would be weird to see Trung Trac move like an Apsara dancer.