[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

[8housesofelixir]

Not sure about a Feitoria being a shipyard replacement though. Could be interesting. I'm still more inclined that they will get a unique improvement that can be built in neutral territory, maybe needing to be adjacent to a luxury resource, and bring yields back to the capital.

Or Portugal's bonus can be tweaked in the Corporation Mode accordingly: Any Feitoria built on an extra Luxury will automatically create an Industry.

 

[notNamed]

No one can read Chữ Nôm. It is one of the Vietnamese "inventions" in the past so they could tell themselves "Hey, we don't have to use Chinese to write things down anymore!", but like, bro, you technically still use it. It is a mashed-up version of Chinese characters so complicated that literature in it is not even that frequent. Having to learn it and pass it down proves incredibly difficult. I have a Vietnamese friend who is fluent in Mandarin trying to go back to Nom trying to "decipher" what the characters mean, and she said the characters felt like they were invented to just to keep the literacy rate purposefully low, cuz the only people who were fluent in Nom back then had to be fluent in Mandarin first, which, once again, defeated its purpose.

The impression I've always got was that nôm isn't all that weird or special, it just missed the mark somewhat. It definitely served its purpose at the time, though. To write a Vietnamese poem, you could either write it in nôm, create it, translate it into Classical Chinese and then hope against all hope that people will somehow magically translate it back to the same poem on the other end (ever seen those clips of people translating lyrics through Google TL and back into English again?), or just say fudge it and make a classical poem. So the niche and purpose was there, it just wasn't a tool to write ordinary Vietnamese correspondence, nor teach the writing to the locals. If you look at Chinese and Japanese, it wasn't really different over on their fronts. Baihua had its intended role and had to go through lots of adapting to become the putonghua/mandarin we know today, including a heavy dose of skepticism over it ever being a script usable in the modern world (hence Mao's insistence to replace it all with pinyin after enough rounds of simplifications to ease people into it). Kokugo of Japan likewise went through a long development process, taking what was there for random poems, Buddhist scriptures and turning it into a workable and usable system. And yes, even they had funky ideas about its future and wanted to do the same waves of simplification until just the kana or latin remained.

Chữ Nôm isn't a real alternative to modern Vietnamese. But that's not really something special only to it. Vietnam just picked a different way and never gave it all the standardisation, selection, simplification and what-not that any vernacular borne of Classical Chinese (any characters, but it's a little more work with these folks) had to undertake.

RE - we still haven't had a naval civ for NFP

We're moving west to east, right? Ryuukyuuan kingdom was a naval-oriented entity east of Vietnam and Kublai's palaces. Just sayin'.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I mean it's not Civilization without a Caravel replacement for Portugal.

Not sure about a Feitoria being a shipyard replacement though. Could be interesting. I'm still more inclined that they will get a unique improvement that can be built in neutral territory, maybe needing to be adjacent to a luxury resource, and bring yields back to the capital.

The only problem I see is that the Caravel WAS a Portuguese unique naval unit, originally developed from the Balinger, a small coastal trading vessel, and the Medieval Cog. We could get the Nau, which was simply a Caravel large enough to carry enough supplies to keep the crew alive for longer voyages, but that still leaves the most common Renaissance ships, the Carrack and the Galleon, out of the game.

Oh well, it still wouldn't be the worst botch of unit types in Civ VI . . .

Feitoria was simply a fortified Portuguese version of the Factory which had already been used as a trading center by Medieval merchant groups like the Hanseatic League for at least a century before the Portuguese started building their versions. The significant difference between the earlier 'factories' and the Feitorias was that the latter were Fortified and built Outside of Portuguese territory, so they really should be modeled as a special outside-your-borders Improvement that combines some of the effects of a Trading Post/Fort. As I remember, in Civ V the Nau could automatically 'build' a Feitoria, but I think it had to be within the borders of a City State. That was a game thing, not related to their historical locations, so perhaps something similar but buildable over any Resource and automatically provides the Resource to Portugal AND establishes a Trading Post to extend your trade routes? That would model pretty closely how they were actually used . . .

 

[Lord Lakely]

If it is not Portugal, I'd wager the last Civ will be a new entry to the franchise and led by a woman, as this will complete the '4New/4Old/1Alt, 6Men/3Women' patterns of yore.

Taino (Anacaona) we can scrap. Caguana's addition to the game in NFP discounts them. Haudenosaunee (Jigonsahsee) are also unlikely, since they are were previously present under their popular name, Iroquois. I don't think they would count as 'new', even if added under 'Haudenosaunee'.

This leaves a couple of options:

> Tonga (Queen Salote)
> Madagascar (Ranavalona)
> Italy (Matilda di Canossa)
> Apache (Goyuen)
> Cherokee (Nanyehi)
> Berbers (Tin Hinan, Sayyida al-Hurrah or Dihya)


Some options I didn't mention because I don't think they're worth listing. Ukraine (Olga of Kyiv) won't be added in an NFP that already adds Byzantium, and I doubt Ashanti (Yaa Assantewaa), Benin (Idia) and Hausa (Amina) would be added with Ethiopia already present. Likewise, Gran Colombia's addition debunks any options for Argentina. (Eva Peron)

Out of these options, I think Italy and Cherokee are the most likely, in terms of leader worthiness and recognizable Civ names. Berbers is an idea that mostly exists inside our CivFanatics bubble, and I doubt they would impress the casual fans. They're better off being saved for Civilization 7, where they can be an expansion addition.

 

[Zaarin]

Haudenosaunee (Jigonsahsee) are also unlikely, since they are were previously present under their popular name, Iroquois. I don't think they would count as 'new', even if added under 'Haudenosaunee'.

I wouldn't consider them particularly likely but the Mohawk led by Molly Brant would be "new" in the same sense "Phoenicia" or "Maori" are new. Not saying I consider it at all likely.

 

[Codeword Iroquois]

RE - we still haven't had a naval civ for NFP

We're moving west to east, right? Ryuukyuuan kingdom was a naval-oriented entity east of Vietnam and Kublai's palaces. Just sayin'.

Sho Hashi leads Ryukyu in Sid Meier's Civilization VI
Ryukyu's Civ ability is 'The Three Mountains'. 'The Three Mountains' allows Ryukyu the protection of another major civilisation from the moment you meet. Ryukyu will always spawn in an island chain.
Sho Hashi's ability is 'Chuzan Gate'. 'Chuzan Gate' allows settlers to embark and settle other islands at sailing, and give Ryukyu a unique monument, the Chuzan Gate. This replacement grants extra loyalty per turn, no matter if the city is at full loyalty or not.

But really, Ryukyu could be fun.

 

[Birch617]

I would love Ryukyu (my last game was as them with mods)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The only problem I see is that the Caravel WAS a Portuguese unique naval unit, originally developed from the Balinger, a small coastal trading vessel, and the Medieval Cog. We could get the Nau, which was simply a Caravel large enough to carry enough supplies to keep the crew alive for longer voyages, but that still leaves the most common Renaissance ships, the Carrack and the Galleon, out of the game.

I mean what better way to show of the uniqueness of Portugal by giving them an enhanced unit of the thing they invented.

 

[Zaarin]

I mean what better way to show of the uniqueness of Portugal by giving them an enhanced unit of the thing they invented.

It worked for Phoenicia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It worked for Phoenicia.

Yeah we could have gotten a fourth War Elephant unit instead.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah we could have gotten a fourth War Elephant unit instead.

That could still go to the Seleucids so that we can be even more swimming in Hellenes.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That could still go to the Seleucids so that we can be even more swimming in Hellenes.

New Hellenic Pass DLC:

Epirus Civ: led by Pyrrhus of Epirus
Unique Unit: War Elephant that causes any friendly unit within 2 tiles to take 25% damage per turn

Seleucid Civ: led by Dmetrius Poliorcetes
Unique Unit: Sambuca (special Siege Tower) Negates all Ancient Walls but has 0 movement factor

Lysimachid Civ: led by Lysimachus
Unique Unit: Thracian Peltast (Swordsman replacement) Automatically attacks any of your own Great Generals within 5 tiles

Ptolemaic Civ: led by Ptolemy IV
Unique Unit: Tessarakonteres ('40er') (Quadireme replacement) Has the factors of a Frigate, but must be built in a Harbor and has 0 Movement and costs 25 Gold Maintenance per turn.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

I was thinking about asymmetry and a possible asymmetrical gameplay of Portugal. Bear with me, because it will be a wild one:

Colonias - You cannot found cities on your starting continent. The fist city founded on a different continent is always at full loyalty, began with the highest level of walls and give +5% to all yields in the capital.

It will really force you to explore and settle elsewhere. Might be a little too drastic but I think it could be nice.

 

[DeepSoul]

I was thinking about asymmetry and a possible asymmetrical gameplay of Portugal. Bear with me, because it will be a wild one:

Colonias - You cannot found cities on your starting continent. The fist city founded on a different continent is always at full loyalty, began with the highest level of walls and give +5% to all yields in the capital.

It will really force you to explore and settle elsewhere. Might be a little too drastic but I think it could be nice.

That would be stupid because Portugal has more than one city on its home continent. But this being Civ 6 and Firaxis you never know. It would require a big boost to the capital and naval techs, and a starting position that isn't too far from a new continent. But the problem is that the portuguese couldn't sail over the atlantic until the late middle-ages, so giving them ocean navigation in the ancient era would conflict with history too much.

If it is not Portugal, I'd wager the last Civ will be a new entry to the franchise and led by a woman, as this will complete the '4New/4Old/1Alt, 6Men/3Women' patterns of yore.

Taino (Anacaona) we can scrap. Caguana's addition to the game in NFP discounts them. Haudenosaunee (Jigonsahsee) are also unlikely, since they are were previously present under their popular name, Iroquois. I don't think they would count as 'new', even if added under 'Haudenosaunee'.

This leaves a couple of options:

> Tonga (Queen Salote)
> Madagascar (Ranavalona)
> Italy (Matilda di Canossa)
> Apache (Goyuen)
> Cherokee (Nanyehi)
> Berbers (Tin Hinan, Sayyida al-Hurrah or Dihya)


Some options I didn't mention because I don't think they're worth listing. Ukraine (Olga of Kyiv) won't be added in an NFP that already adds Byzantium, and I doubt Ashanti (Yaa Assantewaa), Benin (Idia) and Hausa (Amina) would be added with Ethiopia already present. Likewise, Gran Colombia's addition debunks any options for Argentina. (Eva Peron)

Out of these options, I think Italy and Cherokee are the most likely, in terms of leader worthiness and recognizable Civ names. Berbers is an idea that mostly exists inside our CivFanatics bubble, and I doubt they would impress the casual fans. They're better off being saved for Civilization 7, where they can be an expansion addition.

You know that Italy with Matilda and Berbers with Dihya are already available as mods right? I'm not saying that would deter Firaxis from adding them to the game. Just that they exist as playable options and the mods are pretty well made. If they had an animated leader and voice acting they would be on par with vanilla civs.

Personally I like the ideas of both being added as a last civ, and when we're talking Berbers, they might even add Morocco instead.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That would be stupid because Portugal has more than one city on its home continent. But this being Civ 6 and Firaxis you never know. It would require a big boost to the capital and naval techs, and a starting position that isn't too far from a new continent. But the problem is that the portuguese couldn't sail over the atlantic until the late middle-ages, so giving them ocean navigation in the ancient era would conflict with history too much.

I do agree that not being able to settle on your home continent is a little too extreme, though I do like the incentive of cities not on your continent being better.
I had the idea similar to a reverse Maya where cities farther than 6 tiles away obtain 10% more yields, while it goes up to 15% if the city is on another continent, which would be appropriate.

You know that Italy with Matilda and Berbers with Dihya are already available as mods right? I'm not saying that would deter Firaxis from adding them to the game. Just that they exist as playable options and the mods are pretty well made. If they had an animated leader and voice acting they would be on par with vanilla civs.

Personally I like the ideas of both being added as a last civ, and when we're talking Berbers, they might even add Morocco instead.

@sukritact also has amazing Ethiopia and Gaul mods with animated leaders, and one voiced.
I haven't played them myself but they do look very official.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

@sukritact also has amazing Ethiopia and Gaul mods with voiced leaders.
I haven't played them myself but they do look very official.

Not Ethiopia, though, lol. All he does is move his scepter thing. Robespierre, Burma, Iceland, and Siam are the other ones that are voiced.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Not Ethiopia, though, lol. All he does is move his scepter thing. Robespierre, Burma, Iceland, and Siam are the other ones that are voiced.

Oh well I knew he was at least animated.

I edited my post to fix it.

 

[Jkchart]

You say that like it's a bad thing. (A little disappointed with how they presented her as clinically paranoid with a bizarre obsession for walls that somehow equate to "Georgian spirit," but I'm not sorry they included her...)

Once they released G&S Tamar actually became a good leader to play for a nice fusion of diplomacy and religion. Actually was a fun and challenging game.

 

[Jkchart]

And how about this:

Anacaona chief of Taino.
Female leader checked
New civilization checked
Indigenous Americans checked (Carraibean was a region not yet explored by Civ series)
and last but not least. Mugs appeared in Pirates scenario video set in Carraibeans.
PS. Orcas are living there too!

Funnily enough, I made a list of Civs I would love to see included in my own game and right there were the Arawak/Taino with Anacaona as the leader. I love that you thought of this.

 

[Potworny]

Everyday I have to wake up knowing that we may never see Hebrews or Tibet civs and it gets to me.