Civilization VII Civs and Leaders Wishlist [Not a Prediction]

[Krajzen]

I just had an insane idea for DLC when I was thinking of leaders of China.

I don't know if you know epic of Three Kingdoms but you should, it's probably the biggest staple of popular Chinese culture. I have read it some time ago and was very entertained. It features crazy character-driven melodrama, political intrigue and surprisingly realistic feats of war strategy.
So the general idea is for Firaxis to release Three Kingdoms based DLC at one point, which would add two additional leaders for China: Liu Bei and Cao Cao. For the outsiders, they were among few "winners" of the civil war era and they are legendary in Chinese culture for their opposing philosophies and lifetime of respectful rivalry, with Liu Bei being beloved humanitarian ruler of Confucian principles, and Cao Cao being machiavellan genius of warfare and deceit. Chinese players would drown Firaxis in dollars seeing this, and those would be some amazing personalities to joing civ leader roster. It would also be a very unique DLC format.

 

[Leyrann]

I hope Secret Societies will return and would be great as part of the base game.

Please not. They are fun, but they are also completely ahistorical. Anything that's as far divorced from history as secret societies needs to be an optional game mode, and preferably introduced as DLC content so that people who want to play Civ but keep it historical don't have to pay for them.

 

[AvianBritish]

I'm going to post my wishlist before I read everyone else's:

Belgium - Leopold II (Why hasn't this been done yet outside of the Scramble for Africa scenario in Civ5? I don't know too much about them but would like the Belgian and Congo personal union of Leopold II)
Berbers - Masinissa
China - Sun Yat-sen (Can't see it happen, but I would love to see him there as wasn’t he the democratic leader who got shafted by the CCP?)
England - Victoria (I actually prefer Queen Vic over Liz I; I prefer the most industrial revolution side of Great Britain over the feudal age of England)
France - Robert II (Please Firaxis! I let me play as my Great [x32] Grandfather! [Alternatively I'll also allow Henry I, Hugh Capet or any other parent of them to though!])
Germany - Frederick the Great (Give us another look at Prussia; also would love to see an ability though refering to the Hanseatic League)
Gran Colombia - Simón Bolívar (I would prefer Gran Colombia return to the game before Brazil does; there's so much untapped potential in Gran Colombia other than just making it a fast war civ [which I never played them as personally, but still loved them])
Hungary - Matthias Corvinus (Ed Beach told of how Matthias could be designed with so many abilities in mind; most notably I reacall him talking about how he could be portrayed scientifically which could be interesting)
Inca - Manco Cápac
India - Chandragupta (I prefer his presence over Gandhi)
Iroquois - Jigonhsasee (Seems to be the only safe bet for a native North American after the unfortunate Cree fiasco that I fear will put Firaxis off of putting other natives to the Americas back into their games)
Italy - Enrico Dandolo and Julius II (Make Italy a tall civ with little ways of expansion other than through trade and gold (Enrico, with Venice as the capital) or faith and conversion (Julius II, with Vatican City as the capital)
Japan - Mutsuhito
Romania - Vlad III (Yes, he only lead Wallachia, but he could still represent Romania?)
Rome - Julius Caesar
Shirvan - Ibrahim I (Representing the Caucuses in place of Georgia this time around, Shirvan can see oil early on and can extract it for other benefits - if stratigic resouces had passive bonuses for having them, Shirvan could trade this oil away in the early game that will give other empires benefits but will in term gives Shirvan lucrative trade deals)
Sweden - Charles XII (Still surprised we've not had the adversery of Peter the Great yet)
Ukraine - Oleg the Wise (Representing the Kyvan Rus' period of Ukraine mostly - a propper Varangian Viking civ outside of Varangian Harald from Civ6)
Zanzibar - Said bin Sultan (Give Zanzibar some abilities refering to the Swahili)

 

[moondog385]

Belgium - Leopold II (Why hasn't this been done yet outside of the Scramble for Africa scenario in Civ5? Give us the Belgian and Congo personal union of Leopold II)

I think what happened in the Congo disqualifies him. I see Firaxis steering far away from that.

Iroquois - Jigonhsasee (Seems to be the only safe bet for a native North American after the unfortunate Cree fiasco that I fear will put Firaxis off of putting other natives to the Americas back into their games)

I think the Navajo are also safe. As far as I know, there haven't been any issues surrounding their portrayals in any media. It'd be a shame if Firaxis didn't include many Natives because of that one incident.

Zanzibar - Said bin Sultan (Give Zanzibar some abilities refering to the Swahili)

I think he'd work better as a leader for Oman, while Swahili can be their own thing.

 

[IgorS]

To continue my wishlist, I have compiled some ideas for unique features for the civs I'd like to see. Starting with the ones I want in the main game.

Americans:
We the People – one policy card can be changed per turn without paying gold; +2 diplomatic favour per turn per wildcard slot; +1 diplomatic policy card slot in any government from the ancient era onwards
Unique units: Minuteman, Mustang; Unique infrastructure: Ranch
Leader: Thomas Jefferson. Ability: Corps of Discovery; Agenda: Louisiana Purchase. Focuses on exploring the home continent, and expanding on it, can purchase tiles from other civilizations

English:
Magna Carta – +1 gold and +1 science per turn from each amenity-producing district, building or improvement; iron and coal mines give +1 resource per turn
Unique units: Ship of the Line, Redcoat; Unique infrastructure: Seaside Pier
Leader: Queen Anne. Ability: Queen of Great Britain; Agenda: Acts of Union. Focuses on alliances with neighbours, can have a union with one neighbour

Egyptians:
Children of the Nile – +15% production for infrastructure next to a river; can place districts and wonders on floodplains; +1 food and +1 production from floodplains
Unique units: Seneny, Self-Bow Man; Unique infrastructure: Pyramid Complex
Leader: Sahure. Ability: Mission to Punt; Agenda: Lord of Doing Effective Things. Focuses on trading and acquiring luxuries

Greeks:
Mountains of the Gods – upon building a district for the first time, gain a great person associated with it; mountains provide a standard adjacency bonus to all districts, coast tiles (not lake) provide a minor adjacency bonus to all districts
Unique units: Hoplite, Hetairoi; Unique infrastructure: Acropolis
Leader: Cimon. Ability: Delian League; Agenda: Laconist. Focuses on neighbouring city-states

Chinese:
Mandate of Heaven – policy cards are purchased with faith and not with gold; gain a progress of 60% from eurekas and inspirations
Unique units: Zhuge nu, Fire Lancer; Unique infrastructure: Ancestral Shrine
Leader: Kangxi Emperor. Ability: Qing Porcelain; Agenda: Edict of Toleration. Focuses on minority religions

Romans:
Pax Romana – all cities start with a trading post and a road to the capital if in trade route range; cities suffer no war weariness
Unique units: Legionary, Ballista; Unique infrastructure: Triumphal Arch
Leader: Constantine. Ability: In Hoc Signo Vinces; Agenda: Nicene Creed. Focuses on enhancing religion

French:
Liberty Leading the People – double tourism from wonders; +20% production to medieval, renaissance, enlightenment, and industrial era wonders; +5 combat strength when fighting against civilizations with a different government
Unique units: Musketeer, Carabinier-à-cheval; Unique infrastructure: Château
Leader: Francis I. Ability: Father of Letters; Agenda: Restorer of Letters. Focuses on recruiting great people

Indians:
Ahimsa – may found two religions; may establish two religions as majority religions; +1 amenity per religion present in a city
Unique units: Royal Elephant, Siege Gun; Unique infrastructure: Stepwell
Leader: Jawaharlal Nehru. Ability: Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence; Agenda: Non-Aligned. Focuses on defense and keeping the peace

Babylonians:
Ummânū – receive a random eureka upon attracting a great person; campus districts produce +2 science if built next to a river
Unique units: Axeman, Kassite Chariot; Unique infrastructure: Ziggurat
Leader: Nabu-apla-iddina. Ability: Heavenly Ocean; Agenda: Servant of Shamash. Focuses on relics and artefacts

Aztecs:
Sun of Movement – units have +1 movement in rainforest; ancient to renaissance units have a chance to capture defeated enemy units (except for barbarians) and turn them into builders; +5 combat strength for all units for 10 turns after a natural disaster in Aztec territory (mitigated floods don’t count)
Unique units: Tēmātlatlist, Cuāuhocēlōtl; Unique infrastructure: Tlachtli
Leader: Itzcoatl. Ability: Chinampas; Agenda: Lord of the Culhua. Focuses on fertile land, can build chinampas

Russians:
General Winter – -5 combat strength for enemy units inside Russian territory; +1 faith and production from tundra tiles; cities start with 8 tiles around them; blizzards cause 50% less damage to Russian units
Unique units: Gulyay-gorod, Leib Guard; Unique infrastructure: Cosmodrome
Leader: Elizabeth. Ability: Emperor of the Night; Agenda: From the Ball to the Utrenya. Focuses on luxuries and religion

Mongols:
Yam – builders can construct roads; +1 movement for cavalry units
Unique units: Kheshig, Huihui Pao; Unique infrastructure: Örtöö
Leader: Töregene Khatun. Ability: Brilliant Kind Empress; Agenda: Tax Farmer. Focuses on governors

Germans:
Hanseatic League – +5 gold from domestic trade routes and trade routes to and from city-states; earn an envoy when sending a trade route to a city-state
Unique units: Landsknecht, Helgoland; Unique infrastructure: Rathaus
Leader: Louise of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Ability: Stein-Hardenberg Reforms; Agenda: Soul of National Virtue. Focuses on loyalty and happiness

Zulu:
Ubuntu – districts provide +1 food per pasture they are adjacent to; +2 faith from pastures
Unique units: Ipapa Impi, Iklwa Impi; Unique infrastructure: Ikhanda
Leader: Mkabayi kaJama. Ability: iziGodlo; Agenda: Nenzengakhona. Focuses on counter-espionage

Japanese:
Way of the Warrior – units fight at full strength even when damaged; gain 50 faith when a Japanese unit is killed in battle; +1 culture from encampments; +1 era score point from historic moments and dedications during dark ages
Unique units: Samurai, Ashigaru; Unique infrastructure: Dōjō
Leader: Tokugawa Yoshimune. Ability: The Rice Shōgun; Agenda: Rangaku. Focuses on trading with advanced civilizations from foreign continents

Persians:
Protectors of the Realm – palace provides 1 trade route capacity; +2 gold, +1 faith, +1 production, and +1 culture from domestic trade routes; +4 loyalty in cities with a governor; earn a governor title upon becoming suzerain of a city-state for the first time
Unique units: Immortal, Grivpanvar; Unique infrastructure: Pairidaeza
Leader: Khosrow I. Ability: Dehqans; Agenda: The Immortal Soul. Focuses on cavalry and great writers, scientists and thinkers

Spanish:
Silver Fleet – may construct fleets and armadas after researching mercantilism; domestic intercontinental trade routes provide +4 gold, +2 food, and +2 production; cities founded on the coast not on Spain’s home continent start with a trading post; units gain access to the unique “Conquistador” promotion which gives them +8 combat strength not on Spain’s home continent
Unique units: Jinete, Tercio; Unique infrastructure: Plaza de Toros
Leader: Ferdinand. Ability: Most Catholic Majesty; Agenda: Lord of the Indies. Focuses on protecting the home continent and settling other continents

Arabs:
Five Pillars – +1 science for each foreign city following Arabia’s majority religion; +4 gold and +2 faith to and from trade routes to holy cities of Arabia’s majority religion; religious tourism does not diminish after the discovery of the Enlightenment civic; +4 loyalty in cities following the majority religion
Unique units: Camel Archer, Mamluk; Unique infrastructure: Souq
Leader: Al-Ma'mun. Ability: House of Wisdom; Agenda: Justice and Oneness. Focuses on science and faith

Inca:
Mink’a – food producing improvements adjacent to a holy site provide +1 food; mines and quarries adjacent to a holy site provide +1 production; land military units and workers are produced 25% faster in cities with a food surplus of at least 5; units can cross mountains without tunnels at a cost of 1.5 movement
Unique units: Chaski, Chanka Clubman; Unique infrastructure: Andén
Leader: Mama Ocllo. Ability: Siq'i System; Agenda: Qhapaq Panaca. Focuses on expansion away from the capital

Ethiopians:
Home of the Ark – gain a relic when a religion is founded anywhere in a 12 tiles radius around the capital; +4 faith from trade routes with civilizations that have adopted a majority religion; palace has 2 slots for relics
Unique units: Shotelai, Mehal Sefari; Unique infrastructure: Hawilt
Leader: Amda Seyon I. Ability: Glorious Victories; Agenda: Servant of the Cross. Focuses on protecting his religion

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Belgium - Leopold II (Why hasn't this been done yet outside of the Scramble for Africa scenario in Civ5? Give us the Belgian and Congo personal union of Leopold II)

I'm 100% behind you on this one. Belgium is one of the most notable nations never to be a civilization in the game, and Leopold II is its most iconic leader.
What he did in Africa was bad, but many leaders in Civilization games have moral failings; if we're going to exclude Leopold, we'll also have to exclude Caesar and Genghis Khan.

China - Sun Yat-sen (Can see it happen, but I would love to see him there)

I see his working with the communists later in his career as absolutely disqualifying.
The evil of the CCP is not a chapter from history; they're the Evil Empire of the present period, currently engaging in a genocide, and the adversary of all the free peoples of World in the 2nd Cold War.
I honestly don't know who the leader of China could realistically be (I'd prefer Chiang Kai-shek just to stick it to the commie b******s, but Firaxis are a bunch of cowards with more greed than morals)

 

[GeneralZift]

I'm 100% behind you on this one. Belgium is one of the most notable nations never to be a civilization in the game, and Leopold II is its most iconic leader.
What he did in Africa was bad, but many leaders in Civilization games have moral failings; if we're going to exclude Leopold, we'll also have to exclude Caesar and Genghis Khan.


I see his working with the communists later in his career as absolutely disqualifying.
The evil of the CCP is not a chapter from history; they're the Evil Empire of the present period, currently engaging in a genocide, and the adversary of all the free peoples of World in the 2nd Cold War.
I honestly don't know who the leader of China could realistically be (I'd prefer Chiang Kai-shek just to stick it to the commie b******s, but Firaxis are a bunch of cowards with more greed than morals)

Really? I thought the Americans were the Evil empire of the present period? Or was it the Russians. It's so hard to tell these days

 

[moondog385]

I'm 100% behind you on this one. Belgium is one of the most notable nations never to be a civilization in the game, and Leopold II is its most iconic leader.
What he did in Africa was bad, but many leaders in Civilization games have moral failings; if we're going to exclude Leopold, we'll also have to exclude Caesar and Genghis Khan.


I see his working with the communists later in his career as absolutely disqualifying.
The evil of the CCP is not a chapter from history; they're the Evil Empire of the present period, currently engaging in a genocide, and the adversary of all the free peoples of World in the 2nd Cold War.
I honestly don't know who the leader of China could realistically be (I'd prefer Chiang Kai-shek just to stick it to the commie b******s, but Firaxis are a bunch of cowards with more greed than morals)

Not sure I’d compare someone who was complicit in atrocities in the 20th century to people in a time when such things were much more commonplace and not seen as immoral, per se.

Also, Firaxis avoiding modern leaders for China just makes logical sense. Why would you want that controversy associated with your game? There are many great options for China outside of the 20th century.

 

[i can into civfantics]

base game
europe
spain - isabella
germany - bismarck
england-churchill. im fed up with queens
france - napoleon or i will crush every single one of the people who choose the leaders.
russia - stalin or catherine the great
rome - augustus

americas
u.s.a - FDR
brazil - pedro i
gran colombia - bolivar
maya - pakal

asia
china - qin shi huangdi
india - ATOMIC GHANDI no i am just kidding chandragupta
mongol - ghengis khan

africa
egypt - cleopatra
s. africa - mandela
mali- the mansa musa

middle east
arabia - saladin
israelite - david

oceania
australia - jhon curtin

 

[i can into civfantics]

dlc
1.
maori kupe
austria maria thersa
ottoman mehmed ii
portugal salazar
poland casmir i
scotland james ii
sweden gustav ii
japan meiji
2.
assyria ashurbanphal
ukraine vladimir the great
ireland grace o'malley
morocco mohammed iv
netherlands william of oranje
greece alex (ander)
argentina eva peron
yugoslavia tito
leader pass
hungary matthias corvinus
persia cyrus
cuba castro
aleternate leaders
england james ii
u.s.a lincoln
china mao

 

[Arcaian]

I'm 100% behind you on this one. Belgium is one of the most notable nations never to be a civilization in the game, and Leopold II is its most iconic leader.
What he did in Africa was bad, but many leaders in Civilization games have moral failings; if we're going to exclude Leopold, we'll also have to exclude Caesar and Genghis Khan.


I see his working with the communists later in his career as absolutely disqualifying.
The evil of the CCP is not a chapter from history; they're the Evil Empire of the present period, currently engaging in a genocide, and the adversary of all the free peoples of World in the 2nd Cold War.
I honestly don't know who the leader of China could realistically be (I'd prefer Chiang Kai-shek just to stick it to the commie b******s, but Firaxis are a bunch of cowards with more greed than morals)

"Leopold II's direct creation of a genocide on a hitherto unimagined scale is not disqualifying because everyone has done bad things, but Sun Yat-sen working with communists is so unbelievably evil that it is entirely disqualifying" is an absolutely wild perspective to take. Have you considered valuing the lives of millions of Congolese people above that of your hatred for the word communism?

 

[IgorS]

Also, Firaxis avoiding modern leaders for China just makes logical sense. Why would you want that controversy associated with your game? There are many great options for China outside of the 20th century.

I would say Firaxis avoids modern leaders not only for China, but for as many civs as possible, which is probably the right thing to do in general.
Here's how many 20th century leaders have been included in each game:
Civ I: 3
Civ II: 5
Civ III: 2
Civ IV: 6
Civ V: 2
Civ VI: 5

 

[moondog385]

"Leopold II's direct creation of a genocide on a hitherto unimagined scale is not disqualifying because everyone has done bad things, but Sun Yat-sen working with communists is so unbelievably evil that it is entirely disqualifying" is an absolutely wild perspective to take. Have you considered valuing the lives of millions of Congolese people above that of your hatred for the word communism?

My thoughts exactly. But to avoid getting the thread off track, I think it’s for the best that we generally avoid 20th century leaders, with the possible exception of notable Allied figures from WWII. Even then, I’d prefer they draw from more historically distant periods.

 

[canadamufc]

"Leopold II's direct creation of a genocide on a hitherto unimagined scale is not disqualifying because everyone has done bad things, but Sun Yat-sen working with communists is so unbelievably evil that it is entirely disqualifying" is an absolutely wild perspective to take. Have you considered valuing the lives of millions of Congolese people above that of your hatred for the word communism?

I can excuse genocide but I draw the line at communism.

 

[Krajzen]

I would say Firaxis avoids modern leaders not only for China, but for as many civs as possible, which is probably the right thing to do in general.
Here's how many 20th century leaders have been included in each game:
Civ I: 3
Civ II: 5
Civ III: 2
Civ IV: 6
Civ V: 2
Civ VI: 5

Tbh is it really that few? It's 10% in case of Civ VI (20% in Civ IV, 10% in Civ III etc) and we are talking about one century of all history - a lot of civs in the game didn't even exist or weren't relevant in the 20th century anymore, so the functional % is even higher. In Civ V we have

Anyway the problem with post ww2 leaders is that they are "modern" in terms of political and ethical sentiments, whereas older leaders turn into abstractions (with rare exceptions such as Leopold). Bismarck was authoritarian militarist colonialist who also helped to subjugate some African peoples and attempted cultural erasure of Polish peoples, but even Poles don't really have a big problem with him because he is morally abstract "ancient" figure from "a different time". But try making de Gaulle the leader of France, honestly fairly solid choice using pre ww2 metrics of Civ leaders, and it gets all controversial because his post ww2 politics are harshly criticized by left factions of French politics and accused of the same -isms attached to Bismarck half a century earlier.

Part of the charm of modern democracy is also that is allows you to always know just how exactly are leaders (pretty much all of them) popular amidst the populace, and it's always very mixed feelings gravitating towards 50/50 as they never please everybody, unless there is war. Whereas for older leaders we have no such data and they carry this gravitas "ooooh Elisabeth the Great was so great" well today she would have also probably had 50/50 approval rate and half of newspapers saying she's the worst leader ever

 

[AriochIV]

Please not. They are fun, but they are also completely ahistorical. Anything that's as far divorced from history as secret societies needs to be an optional game mode, and preferably introduced as DLC content so that people who want to play Civ but keep it historical don't have to pay for them.

Yeah, I'd rather that they dial the fantasy elements down, not up. This ain't Age of Wonders.

 

[Quintillus]

Wishlist? Not being afraid to re-use leaders from previous games. Trying to pick not-used-before leaders for civs that have been in many iterations just results in more and more obscure leaders being selected. Ulysses Grant leading America? A solid choice for a Great General, not so much as the iconic leader. Aurelian for Rome? He may have succeeded me as Emperor, but neither of us would be a well-recognized, iconic choice. Go with well-known, iconic leaders.

I also agree that modern choices are generally not great choices. III's choice of Mao for China now looks political, though it likely wasn't intended to be at the time. IV's choice of Stalin as option for Russia (in the base game, not for a scenario) looks like a questionable endorsement, and I's choice of Stalin alone even more so. Churchill and FDR from IV have aged well enough, but in general, if there are options from earlier times, it's probably a better option. Though it can be challenging if you are going to have Canada, Australia, Brazil, or Belgium in the game - none of which I'd include in the Vanilla group. Represent a wider time period of history, and when in doubt, favor the earlier time periods in history where most of the gameplay is likely to take place.

And if they do include Belgium, I'd have to hope they do not choose Leopold II. He was infamous in his own time. I'm not saying Firaxis should be choosing all saints for leaders, but I wouldn't want that guy as the representation of my country if I were Belgian.

 

[IgorS]

Wishlist? Not being afraid to re-use leaders from previous games. Trying to pick not-used-before leaders for civs that have been in many iterations just results in more and more obscure leaders being selected. Ulysses Grant leading America? A solid choice for a Great General, not so much as the iconic leader. Aurelian for Rome? He may have succeeded me as Emperor, but neither of us would be a well-recognized, iconic choice. Go with well-known, iconic leaders.

Completely disagree with this. Choosing the same leaders over and over again should not be the way to go. And picking "obscure" leaders is not necessarily bad. Civilization has always been a learning tool about different aspects of history, so why not introduce new faces, especially if those leaders were also good, and in many cases even better, than the famous picks. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Napoleon or Elizabeth I again, but I also think that we need new faces. Also, I wouldn't mind at all seeing leaders that were included in past games, but only once or twice, such as Hatshepsut, Ashoka, or Louis XIV.

 

[UWHabs]

Completely disagree with this. Choosing the same leaders over and over again should not be the way to go. And picking "obscure" leaders is not necessarily bad. Civilization has always been a learning tool about different aspects of history, so why not introduce new faces, especially if those leaders were also good, and in many cases even better, than the famous picks. Of course, I wouldn't mind seeing someone like Napoleon or Elizabeth I again, but I also think that we need new faces. Also, I wouldn't mind at all seeing leaders that were included in past games, but only once or twice, such as Hatshepsut, Ashoka, or Louis XIV.

It's always a balance. Leaders like Napoleon, Elizabeth I, etc.. I don't think you can ever really complain about making it in, as they are obviously some of the most famous leaders in all of history. I'm no expert in history, so it is nice to see some lesser known options now and then. VI I think tended to steer that way for most of its cycle - until the leader pass time where we got Lizzy, Lincoln, Julius, etc... the roster definitely veered towards the unknowns. In a lot of ways it wouldn't surprise me if they reverse that in VII, and lean more into the bigger names. Especially when you factor in how many iterations of the game we've had, it's getting harder and harder to find leaders who have never made it to any version.

 

[FishFishFish]

Aurelian for Rome? He may have succeeded me as Emperor, but neither of us would be a well-recognized, iconic choice.

Sounds to me like you are just bitter Aurelian saved Rome while you got deposed after 17 days.