Climb the Ladder VI: Montezuma - Emperor

[learner gamer]

Great lighthouse is not useful until you get international traderoutes.

@vicawoo: I readily admit that I’m nowhere near your level, so this is a genuine question: if TGLH is only useful once you get international trade routes, why is so much store placed in TGLH in isolation? Is it a red herring? As an alternative, do you mean that the value of TGLH is maximised when international trade routes exist? If so, as an intermediate step here, would settling a coastal city (eg. the landmass off to the NE of the capital, if the site is decent) help? Or are you saying that the value of RExxing to settle the main landmass here > TGLH followed by settling the land, even though all the cities settled are likely to be coastal?

 

[vicawoo]

It's sort of a red herring, but if you have it when you get astronomy, it starts giving massive benefits.

So you'll get astronomy slower, but will have double the benefits.

It costs 200 hammers for the wonder and 60 for the lighthouse, which get various trait discounts. With one island, the island will gain 2 x 3 = 6 trade routes instead of 2 x 1 = 2 trade routes. Your mainland cities receive 2 extra island trade routes, so + 2 x 1 = 2. So you're getting 8 commerce. Let's say you have 5 mainland cities, that's an extra 5 x 2 = 10 gold. So you're getting around 18 commerce, which isn't bad.

However, you're giving up more than 2 settlers worth of hammers. You're delaying a library (in this case your capital can't produce it). So if your capital makes a library, what city makes settlers? What about fogbusters, or failed stone cash.

Let's say you delay your next 2 settlers 20 turns. In terms of bulbing, they'll lose 20 turns of great scientist generation each, which may delay them from an astronomy bulb. A size 5 commerce city might later have 2 scientists, 2 riverside villages, or 6 beakers + 8 commerce from the city/trade route. With representation, that's say 3 more villages, so 12 beakers + 17 commerce. With 2 such settlers, that's a bigger deal than you think.

Also with a delayed library, you won't get a first great scientist unless you build a library quickly (which means even slower expansion), although you can just golden age it.

The faster you go for astronomy the more significant the delayed settlers are. But you get double the trade routes from astronomy.

In my shadow, I went for it and failed (thought I could squeeze it in on emperor, won't specify what else I was building), which probably delayed astronomy pretty badly.

 

[vicawoo]

Drama's often preferable to mass hereditary rule, but it's so far away if you can justify the cost with the great library. Great library means you don't have to worry about 3+ cities running scientists. But with representation, you want to have 3 cities running scientists. You also lack hammers to build pyramids and expand and get the great library.

I didn't have happiness problems.

 

[dankok8]

BUMP! Busy with school and job hunt.

Planning to finish this game so don't go anywhere.

 

[Robert FIN]

Revive this please, Dankok !

 

[ben-jammin]

@vicawoo: I readily admit that I’m nowhere near your level, so this is a genuine question: if TGLH is only useful once you get international trade routes, why is so much store placed in TGLH in isolation? Is it a red herring? As an alternative, do you mean that the value of TGLH is maximised when international trade routes exist? If so, as an intermediate step here, would settling a coastal city (eg. the landmass off to the NE of the capital, if the site is decent) help? Or are you saying that the value of RExxing to settle the main landmass here > TGLH followed by settling the land, even though all the cities settled are likely to be coastal?

It still benefits you, but only half as much. It makes sense in isolation for a couple reasons. You're going to have to self-research sailing anyway, and there is no AI pressuring you to claim land. The main drawback of early wonders is how much they stunt your expansion, in isolation that isn't a problem.