Clown Car IV: The Dotard and Dunce Parade

[hobbsyoyo]

To be frank, I will probably do more work than you will to elect the Democrat, because I'm likely going to be canvassing for the election in the course of my job, as I canvassed the Presidential election in 2016 and the midterm elections last year.

Even though it's part of your job, I still admire this about you. I often wonder why there aren't protests in the streets over the concentration camps and then I remember I can't be assed to turn out when there are protests.

and he definitely will if you let him win.

I don't think Lexicus intends to let that happen. He's said over and over he's going to vote Democratic in the general. I think it's a question of enthusiasm and how far we all pursue our own purity tests. I think you (and I and a lot of others) are carrying a lot of anxiety because that influential people like Lexicus won't be sufficiently motivated and enthusiastic in the general and even if he votes, he might unwittingly influence others to sit it out. Or maybe I'm projecting but that's certainly how I feel whenever I see him going off on a leading Democrat for their various failings. And I think we even agree with him that those failings are important and we all should care, it's just a disagreement of how loudly we complain about it.

 

[Lexicus]

And, I apparently have to say this again, Trump has done much to rig the system, but he has not yet made Democratic victory impossible, and he definitely will if you let him win.

Yeah, see to me this is just a really implausible needle you're threading, if that makes sense.

And yes, I frankly imagine it's easy to canvas when you're paid to do so.

Well, I repeatedly knocking on strangers' doors to convince them to vote for flaccid centrist Democrats was a kind of shock therapy that annihliated a good deal of my social anxiety, and it's gotten easier over time but man it was really hard when I first started doing it....it was not easy.
And I'm not a paid canvasser, or not exactly: my normal job isn't canvassing but since I'm on union staff I get "deployed" to canvass.

Even though it's part of your job, I still admire this about you. I often wonder why there aren't protests in the streets over the concentration camps and then I remember I can't be assed to turn out when there are protests.

Yeah I mean, same. I have fantasized about civil disobedience such that every time they try to deport somebody they'd need to arrest a few hundred people. It's really really hard to get people to commit to that kind of thing.

Also, no need to admire it about me, I really only do it because it's my job. I did volunteer-canvass for some local elections in the past but I'm mostly a lazy Sarlaac pit

He's said over and over he's going to vote Democratic in the general.

Well, I don't know if I can bring myself to actually vote for Biden or Buttigieg but it really doesn't matter because of the electoral college. Actually, I think trying to convince people to vote for the Democrat in the "in play" states is probably worth a lot more than your own vote if you live in a safely Democratic state. The only thing voting for the Democrat does if you live in CA, DC, etc. is add to the popular vote margin. The popular vote margin is a nice message but I've learned from the Republicans and I don't want to send messages, I want to "send messages" by winning and ruthlessly exercising power.

 

[Lexicus]

@General thread topic

Can someone who's all high-minded and moderate seriously convince me that those Republican state Senators in Oregon don't actually deserve to be literal political prisoners?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Actually, I think trying to convince people to vote for the Democrat in the "in play" states is probably worth a lot more than your own vote if you live in a safely Democratic state. The only thing voting for the Democrat does if you live in CA, DC, etc. is add to the popular vote margin. The popular vote margin is a nice message but I've learned from the Republicans and I don't want to send messages, I want to "send messages" by winning and ruthlessly exercising power.

I actually think there's a reason even for people in safe states to vote for the Democratic candidate, whoever that ends up being. Say Trump gets beat narrowly in some of the key states--Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan--and decides he's going to claim the election results are fake news: "I won those states last time; there's no way I wouldn't also win them this time." If states across the nation all have upped Democratic percentages from 2016 by about the same degree as in those key states, it will be much harder for him to maintain that claim. It will be obvious that the country turned out in number against him.

So Lex, I am calling for your Biden vote (should it come to that).

 

[Patine]

Well, I don't know if I can bring myself to actually vote for Biden or Buttigieg but it really doesn't matter because of the electoral college. Actually, I think trying to convince people to vote for the Democrat in the "in play" states is probably worth a lot more than your own vote if you live in a safely Democratic state. The only thing voting for the Democrat does if you live in CA, DC, etc. is add to the popular vote margin. The popular vote margin is a nice message but I've learned from the Republicans and I don't want to send messages, I want to "send messages" by winning and ruthlessly exercising power.

Wouldn't it be nice if Monty Hall could give you (and all other Americans) a Door Number Three that wasn't guaranteed to be a goat?

 

[Cutlass]

"In a fair world you would get a Putlitzer for your incredible reporting...Mueller is a Gestapo ops that is trampling on all our constitutional rights. You are truly a key part from saving America from this Fascist attack on our constitutional rights!"
-- Paul Manafort to Sean Hannity, in 2018 texts

 

[Kyriakos]

"In a fair world you would get a Putlitzer for your incredible reporting...Mueller is a Gestapo ops that is trampling on all our constitutional rights. You are truly a key part from saving America from this Fascist attack on our constitutional rights!"
-- Paul Manafort to Sean Hannity, in 2018 texts

Likely not a gestapo op, yet Mueller did consciously lie to congress that Sadam had WMDs, so let's not make him some paradigm of ethics or not part of your problem.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Likely not a gestapo op, yet Mueller did consciously lie to congress that Sadam had WMDs, so let's not make him some paradigm of ethics or not part of your problem.

Cutlass literally posted a direct quote. He's not "making" anyone "some paradigm" of anything. He's just quoting someone's actual statement. Why you're using it as an excuse to defend Paul Manafort and Sean Hannity is beyond me.

 

[Kyriakos]

Cutlass literally posted a direct quote. He's not "making" anyone "some paradigm" of anything. He's just quoting someone's actual statement. Why you're using it as an excuse to defend Paul Manafort and Sean Hannity is beyond me.

Because I am not?
Just noting that you shouldn't make Mueller be some respectable or non-pos person either. He may not be Hannity/Manafort level, but that isn't saying much.

 

[Cutlass]

Likely not a gestapo op, yet Mueller did consciously lie to congress that Sadam had WMDs, so let's not make him some paradigm of ethics or not part of your problem.

And just what did Mueller have to do with determining whether or not Sadam had WMDs? It was the Bush inner circle and some tame CIA people who faked up the evidence that convinced everyone of that.

 

[Kyriakos]

And just what did Mueller have to do with determining whether or not Sadam had WMDs? It was the Bush inner circle and some tame CIA people who faked up the evidence that convinced everyone of that.

He gave a statement/interview to congress. If he was a nobody I suppose they wouldn't bother having him there?
Just saying that he is tarnished, and someone non tarnished should have played the role of bringing Trump down.

 

[Estebonrober]

@General thread topic

Can someone who's all high-minded and moderate seriously convince me that those Republican state Senators in Oregon don't actually deserve to be literal political prisoners?

Somebody has to not go to work for coal!

This is about their refusing to convene because of the climate bill right?

 

[Patine]

Likely not a gestapo op, yet Mueller did consciously lie to congress that Sadam had WMDs, so let's not make him some paradigm of ethics or not part of your problem.

Yes, but Trump has told the truth in a public sense notably LESS than he's lied since the start of his election bid in 2015, in ways that actually be verified. To be honest, there are so many vile criminals of the worst in U.S. government and military, as well as those vile "alphabet soup agencies" who commit nothing but crimes and have to live in an atmosphere of secrecy legally enforced (in a way that SHOULD be criminal), from both major parties, sitting and retired, who are being protected by corrupt and nepotistic politics from facing justice, or even any REAL investigation or indictment (the odd rare dog and pony for political gain, but nothing that has anything to do with due process or justice), that a MASSIVE cleanup and tribunals SHOULD be done. But like the Mafia and the long lied to, deceived, terrorized, and insularized people of Sicily, this seems unlikely without it pushed to the point of a popular revolution. Not that I'm advocating a revolution, as that would be a horrid and bloody that would probably lead to something FAR worse to emerge from the chaos, but it's quite the morass really, and it's unsustainable indefinitely, one way or another.

 

[Arakhor]

Somebody has to not go to work for coal!

This is about their refusing to convene because of the climate bill right?

So it would appear.

 

[Estebonrober]

So it would appear.

That escalated quickly. Is this that tyranny of the minority Republicans are always going on about?

 

[Socrates99]

So it would appear.

Wow, just wow. Is this what it looks like when democracy self destructs?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Yep.

 

[Takhisis]

^We compare the GOP with Nazis and then they actually start doing what Hitler and his fellow legislators did in Germany in the 1930s.

I mean what they did as legislators, rather than the simple racist-nationalist imagery, six-pointed stars, etc.

 

[Kyriakos]

"Bolton is a bureaucratic tapeworm"

When Tucker makes more sense than establishment democrats.

I think the US should stop being trigger-happy. Unless it is against Turkey, of course - that is a different scenario
But Iran isn't a warmonger nor is it making the world more dangerous.

Also:

"Oh, just a limited strike, sorry!"

 

[Takhisis]

When Tucker makes more sense than establishment democrats.

Pigs will have flown first.

And being propelled by being used to clog up the Springfield Dam does not count.