Come again?

[Iggy]

This thread is an off shoot of the Prove God exists thread, but purely to explore one particular area. “Oh no!” I hear you cry, but hang on give it a chance. I am interested in one theme that the Christians were putting forward as their reason for believing in their God, a “feeling” which was emotional or spiritual aka faith.

When pressed for proof of Gods existence the reply was that there is no proof either way to satisfy atheists or religious types that the other side is right.

A man appears in a foreign country and claims he is Jesus fulfilling the second coming prophesy.
(To stop this getting too fantastical, let us say he was reported to have performed miracles such as bring someone back to life and curing a blind person, but these miracles were only witnessed by a handful of people. When Jesus is asked to offer proof of his claim he replies that God should not be tested, therefore no public / televised witnessing of miracles can be seen. Let us say that the person claiming to be JC offers the authorities / general public as much evidence as the original JC.)
Obviously my view and no doubt the view of other atheists would be that this chap was not right in the head. But for Christian believers it would place them in a similar position to the Jews when JC made his Messiah claim. We have established that Christians do not need to have and cannot not rely on proof to back up their faith.

Using the above as the background my question is this:
Would you believe in this mans’ claims and duly worship him based on him offering you the same evidence as JC originally did?

Edited for spelling.

 

[King Alexander]

To answer your question:

I would wait until someone put him in a psychiatric clinic(I'd do it myself, if I were some sort of authority), and do the neccessary tests to prove that his "brains" are ok: this includes all the person's historical, such as; what he went through his young age, what did he experienced, etc...

Then, they'd have to take him in a science lab to make a blood/urine analysis, so we know if he "was" on something.

Last but not least, they'd have to ask him to prove his claimings(much as the scientists prove theirs before they make an announcement), and if he did that, they'd have to show that "proof" in all over the world, so we could be convinced about his Greatness.

Does this answer your question? I DO believe that the believers would have asked for the same methods, if someone claimed that he were JC fulfilling the second coming prophecy.

 

[WillJ]

Does this answer your question? I DO believe that the believers would have asked for the same methods, if someone claimed that he were JC fulfilling the second coming prophecy.

Jesus had to go through a urine test?

Edit: Never mind, I read that wrong.

 

[IglooDame]

I'd recommend reading Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein, it addresses this exact question (in a very entertaining way).

 

[Bozo Erectus]

There must be tens of thousands of nutcases in the world who think theyre Jesus Christ. Some of them even have followers. Would I worship any of them? Of course not. If he isnt the 'Son of God' then no need to worship him. If he IS the 'Son of God' then still no need to worship him. A divine being wouldnt be interested in worship. Desiring adulation is strictly a human trait.

 

[IglooDame]

There must be tens of thousands of nutcases in the world who think theyre Jesus Christ. Some of them even have followers. Would I worship any of them? Of course not. If he isnt the 'Son of God' then no need to worship him. If he IS the 'Son of God' then still no need to worship him. A divine being wouldnt be interested in worship. Desiring adulation is strictly a human trait.

In the spirit of nitpickery, I agree with you right up until the last two sentences. A divine being may or may not be interested in worship, but if they do want to be worshipped, they haven't done a particularly good job of showing it.

 

[Iggy]

I'd recommend reading Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert Heinlein, it addresses this exact question (in a very entertaining way).

Thanks for that, Igloo. I will get hold of a copy.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

In the spirit of nitpickery, I agree with you right up until the last two sentences. A divine being may or may not be interested in worship, but if they do want to be worshipped, they haven't done a particularly good job of showing it.

Well, Im operating under the assumption that a divine entity would be wiser than us. Placing a high value on being worshipped is an indication of an insecure person with low self esteem, who feels unloved and unappreciated and needs to be constantly reassured and reaffirmed. These are hardly traits I would ascribe to a Supreme Being. Anyone or anything that craves and demands worship is inherently imperfect and therefore, not a deity.

 

[HamaticBabylon]

Mankind is slowly moving away from all this Guidence the creator has given to us!

 

[Iggy]

I cannot remember if JC advocated people to worship him or not? However people do so today. I was asking if people would worship JC2C (Jesus Christ second coming) in the flesh.

 

[Smidlee]

Using the above as the background my question is this:
Would you believe in this mans’ claims and duly worship him based on him offering you the same evidence as JC originally did?

No. The scriptures points out that the miracles of Jesus really didn't win people over since most just explain the miracles away. (Saying he casted them by the devil). It wasn't the miracles themselves but the words which Jesus spoke made the impact.( John 7:46 "the officers answered, Never man spake like this man.") Also there was many fruitcakes in Jesus days that started up their own click.
Acts 5:36 the word of Gamaliel (an unbeliever) "For before these days rose up Theudus, boasting himself to be somebody, to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. After this man rose up Judas of Galilee....... let them alone (Jesus disciples); for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought but if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it..." . there were many more believer after the cross which heard the Word of God than those who saw the miracles of Jesus first handed.

Which come to my point on salvation isn't a feeling then though you do have feeling with salvation. Salvation is when the Spirit of God and the Word of God meet together in someones heart and totally change their lives around 180 degrees. (all I did was have faith which even God had to give me. Faith is that all a man can do for anything else would be works) 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." Even now I have trouble explaining it except it's truly a miracle.
faith isn't the opposide of knowledge/facts ( as many tries to claim) but faith is the opposide of works. By works no man can be justified.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I cannot remember if JC advocated people to worship him or not? However people do so today. I was asking if people would worship JC2C (Jesus Christ second coming) in the flesh.

Based on my two previous posts here, my answer is obviously no, I wouldnt worship him. Worship is meaningless and empty and would just waste mine, and the deitys time.

 

[Iggy]

Thanks for your reply Smidlee. There were people who soke to Jesus who did not believe his claims. The question remains though how would you know wether this man, JC2C, is real or not?

 

[Smidlee]

Based on my two previous posts here, my answer is obviously no, I wouldnt worship him. Worship is meaningless and empty and would just waste mine, and the deitys time.

this makes sense because noone would want to worship someone they have no love for.True worship is an act of love.

 

[Iggy]

Based on my two previous posts here, my answer is obviously no, I wouldnt worship him. Worship is meaningless and empty and would just waste mine, and the deitys time.

Thanks for that DP . My post was not really aimed at you, just clearing up any potential misunderstanding for anybody reading the posts. I did not want to get too hung up on the "worshipping" aspect. I am intrigued as to what practising Christians would need to recognise him as in their minds being the genuine article.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

this makes sense because noone would want to worship someone they have no love for.True worship is an act of love.

By that definition, then god, who presumably loves his creation, should also worship us. Worship has more to do with fear than with love.

 

[King Alexander]

The question remains though how would you know wether this man, JC2C, is real or not?

I did answered your question. What do you think? Maybe you want to be neutral, so believers and non-believers post their opinions?

 

[Smidlee]

Thanks for your reply Smidlee. There were people who soke to Jesus who did not believe his claims. The question remains though how would you know wether this man, JC2C, is real or not?

On a personal level this is a very tough question to answer. I see the question more like " would I recognize the very Christ I claim to worship if he came to visit me?" Of course I sure hope so and feel pretty sure I would with time . This is like trying to answer if it come to it would I give my life for Christ or even my own child? I believe I would yet there is times I let myself down when I knew what I should have done.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I did not want to get too hung up on the "worshipping" aspect. I am intrigued as to what practising Christians would need to recognise him as in their minds being the genuine article.

My own feeling is that one would know god by just looking at him. I look at the natural world and I instinctively recognize god. I think the same would happen if he became incarnate and spoke to me as a man.

 

[King Alexander]

On a personal level this is a very tough question to answer. I see the question more like " would I recognize the very Christ I claim to worship if he came to visit me?" Of course I sure hope so and feel pretty sure I would . This is like trying to answer if it come to it would I give my life for Christ or even my own child? I believe I would yet there is times I let myself down when I knew what I should have done.

1) HOW would you recoginize JC? Only with your "feelings"? Maybe "I" am JC, and I'm "testing" you.
2) Do you REALLY believe that god is a sadist who wants you to prove your faith in him by killing your own child? If so, I'm glad I don't believe.