Confucianism: Religion or Philosophy?

[Dida]

Does confucianism have an opinion on what happens after you die?

Yes, after you die, you join the rank of the ancestors, who are to be worshipped and can bestow favor and good fortune.

 

[El_Machinae]

Then it's a religion. Thanks.

 

[Xanikk999]

Such as...?

If they don't have Supreme Being of Worship then they aren't or shouldn't be actual relgions. Kinda like Buddhism. That shouldn't technically be religion cause Buddha never wanted to be thought of as anything but a moral man.

Well i can turn this around on christianity. Christ was a jew did he expect people to start a new religion? I though he just expected people to know he was the saviour but judiasm does not accept christ as the savior.

(Im not a theology expert please correct me if im wrong)

 

[GenMarshall]

Then it's a religion. Thanks.

I disagree, I dont think its a religion. As I read in Wikipedia's article. Confucianism may include ancestor worship, sacrifices to ancestral spirits. All of these features can be trased back to non-Confucian Chinese beliefs that were established long before Confucious himself.

I feel that Confucianism is not considered to be a religion, even the Chinese and other East Asian people dont consider it as a religion. Confucians state that Confucianism is not a religion but a moral code and a philosiphical world view.

 

[Dida]

Confucianism does have some supreme being, it is called 'Heaven', who can bestow mandate of heaven upon an emporor for example.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, it's certainly more than a moral code.

It sounds like deeds are rewarded through a magical system instead of through logical cause/effect. As well, since it has elements regarding an afterlife, I'd say that 'unprovable magic' is a strong element.

Does Confucianism NEED ancestral worship to function properly? As well, what is the motivation for the moral code?

 

[Dida]

The motivation for the moral code is that you are a man, and you shall behave like a man.

 

[El_Machinae]

Why? Is there a punishment/reward system?

 

[GenMarshall]

Well i can turn this around on christianity.

I was hoping that this would strictly stay with Confucianism and not harp on Christianity , which itself is a religion with a belief in God (or a supernatural being for you athiests out there )

Christ was a jew did he expect people to start a new religion? I though he just expected people to know he was the saviour but judiasm does not accept christ as the savior.

He did expected people to follow his teachings. Most Christians affirm in the Nicene Creed and believe that Jesus is both the Son of God and God made incarnate. Also Many Christians (even the restornationists who dont accept the Nicene Creed) believe that Jesus fulfilled the Bible prophecy. Christians believe that Jesus is a member of the Holy Trinity (The Son). The core Christian belieif of the mission of Jesus is found in John 3:16 "for God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life". Christians believe that the Bible states Jesus to be divine, to clame divinity, and to clame equality with God the Father.

Judaism does not consider Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah mainly because it does not consider him to fulfilled messianic prophecies, nor did he embodied the personal qualification of the Messiah. In short, Judaism does not condsider Jesus to be a prophet and considers him to be a false prophet.

Anyway, lets stick with the original topic, please. I dont feel like defending Christianity and Catholism in a Confucianism thread.

 

[GenMarshall]

Confucianism does have some supreme being, it is called 'Heaven', who can bestow mandate of heaven upon an emporor for example.

Again that goes back to the pre-Confucianism days. In reality, Confucianism does not have a supreme being and a heaven

 

[Sidhe]

Well i can turn this around on christianity. Christ was a jew did he expect people to start a new religion? I though he just expected people to know he was the saviour but judiasm does not accept christ as the savior.

(Im not a theology expert please correct me if im wrong)

The majority do accept him as a prophet though as do the Islamics, Islam place him at the same level as Mohammed and David. Although they too deny he is the direct son of God, they do think he was his representative or messiah kind of but they don't think he was god's seed. They see god as inseperable. Not Father Son and holy Ghost.

 

[Dida]

As far as I know, there is no punishment for breaking the moral code and no reward for sticking to it. But, you must understand Confucianism is more like an elitist religion, it doesn't seek to indoctrinate the mass but only the educated few, aka the 'Confucians'. These Confucians are held to a higher moral standard, they must understand adhering the rules of the Ancestors will be not only good for them, but good for the whole world.

 

[Dida]

Again that goes back to the pre-Confucianism days. In reality, Confucianism does not have a supreme being and a heaven

Confucianism does have a supreme being and a Heaven, this is essential to Confucian belief and worldview. I suggest you take a deeper look at Confucianism than Wikipedia.
The book I Ching, used in divination and explaining the natural phenomena was also a Confucian book, Confucius himself compliled it.
The name Confucianism was misleading. Confucianism is not called by this name in Chinese, because it is not a religion about Confucius. Confucius merely compiled ancient works and made them easier to read.

 

[El_Machinae]

they must understand adhering the rules of the Ancestors will be not only good for them, but good for the whole world.

Well, I would certainly say that this is what I believe (though I don't think the Ancestors are the final word on behaviour) - so it's certainly a philosophy in this regard.

 

[GenMarshall]

Confucianism does have a supreme being and a Heaven, this is essential to Confucian belief and worldview. I suggest you take a deeper look at Confucianism than Wikipedia.

I dont believe that Confucianism has a supreme being and a heaven. Confucius occasionally made statements of other-worldy beings which sounds distinctly agnostic and humanistic to Western faith's ears. An example of this is "Show respect to the ghosts and spirits, but keep them at a distance" (Analects, VI 19). He also said, when asked by an impetuous disciple how to serve ghosts and spirits, "Till you have learnt to serve men, how can you serve ghosts?" The disciple (Zilu) then asked about the dead. The Master said, "Till you know about the living, how are you to know about the dead?" (Analects XI. 11. tr. Waley) in conclusion, Confucianism is considered an ethical tradition and not a religion.

I look further in wiki that its possible for one can be a Taoist, Catholic/Christian, Muslim, Shintoist or a Buddhist and still profess Confucianist beliefs.

 

[Sidhe]

That's true confucianism has always married well with other religions, in theory you could be a Budhist Catholic too, because the Budhists acknowledge there is a source but simply refuse to define it as a God as such or not.

As a matter of interest I mistyped Budhist as Bushist: man what a scarey religion that would be. You couldn't be a catholic/ muslim for reasons of the intepritation of God in that muslims believe god is indivisable and catholics obviously don't Father Son Holy ghost and all that.

 

[GenMarshall]

That's true confucianism has always married well with other religions, in theory you could be a Budhist Catholic too, because the Budhists acknowledge there is a source but simply refuse to define it as a God as such or not.

So for my case, it would be possible for me to be a Confucist a Budhist while still remaining a Roman Catholic Christian?

 

[Heretic_Cata]

For me religion IS a philosophy . But voting for philosophy would mean that i think it is not a religion.

EDIT: But why must it be black or white ? Why isn't there a middle answer there. :EDIT END

And some philosophies can be religions - for example the Phythagoreans.

 

[Elrohir]

According to the Almighty Civ4 Civilopedia, it is a religion. So it hath been said, so it shall be done. So say we all.

 

[GenMarshall]

According to the Almighty Civ4 Civilopedia, it is a religion. So it hath been said, so it shall be done. So say we all.

Were not going by the Game. Get your brain out of Civ4