Conquest or Domination on a huge map seems nigh impossible!

[SilverTab]

I'm just getting back into Civ IV. Had to take a break from the addiction for awhile, but I've recently been sucked back in.

I usually win Space Race as I suspect is the case for most players, but it never feels as satisfying as Conquest or Domination.

I've never gotten a Conquest or Domination victory on a huge map, and for whatever reason I see this as the Holy Grail of my civ4 career. It's the most difficult way to win that I've tried. (Except for maybe Diplomacy. The AI leaders are all insane and inherently evil.) Even on the easier difficulty levels (well, I haven't played Settler since my very first time playing the game) I can't do it. Does anyone ever attempt Conquest or Domination on a huge map? And if you can win this way, got any tips? Especially...what are the best leaders for Conquest and/or Domination?

What victory types do YOU find most difficult? Any way that you haven't won yet?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

What victory types do YOU find most difficult?

Diplo - I take no joy from haggling with dice.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Diplo - I take no joy from haggling with dice.

You make it sound a lot harder than it is, unless of course you play with random events, but if that's the case finding no joy in dice haggling makes roughly 0 sense.

Getting specific AIs to +8 isn't all that hard, and the UN can be thrown to someone to manipulate votes, as can spy missions...

 

[Gaga1111]

I kind of agree with TMIT about the diplo though I rarely win that way (80-90% space which is becoming unsatisfying) I only once won a domination win which in my opinion is the hardest one.I played this time the first time ever civ specifically civ 4 with roosevelt (now I play prince trying to move up to monarch but I suck at it).I actually never thought about it but on FfH2 the almost only way I win is conquest weird.So the second hardest for me is Conquest

 

[hikkie]

I kind of agree with TMIT about the diplo though I rarely win that way (80-90% space which is becoming unsatisfying) I only once won a domination win which in my opinion is the hardest one.I played this time the first time ever civ specifically civ 4 with roosevelt (now I play prince trying to move up to monarch but I suck at it).I actually never thought about it but on FfH2 the almost only way I win is conquest weird.So the second hardest for me is Conquest

I find culture/space harder than domination/conquest.
I can usually win by domination/conquest, but I take the diplo man before i meet those conditions.

Diplo is imho the easiest. If u have like 30%/30% and have some vassals it' s usually diplo already.

 

[Mittens]

Culture attempts are the only ones I actually miss some times, and I find it nearly impossible to break 1880 AD or so (Monarch).

 

[naterator]

Domination wins are just as hard on huge maps as regular maps, just alot more tedious. I play Huge pretty much exclusively, and once you get that monster empire in war mode for the final push, it's only a matter of time. Lots and lots of time. Conquest is less of a chore, since razed cities have no build queues to manage.
Remember, when you have 30 cities auto-producing units, rally points are your best friend

Also, as hikkie said, diplo-manation can make the trip alot shorter if you take vassals.

 

[Kadazzle]

I actually fined diplo very easy, as it's my usual and preferred win type. For me, culture and space race seem to be the "hardest". I've gotten Immortal wins on them before, but it's just a chore playing all the way up to year 1900 or so for me, which is why I prefer Diplo/Conq/Dom wins.

 

[BigTime]

Diplo is insanely easy if you have enough pop. All you really need to do is gift techs for a auto +4 and add some more things on. IMO culture is hardest, followed by Dom/Conquest, then Space Race, and finally Diplo.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

All this stuff about anything being harder than conquest is blathering nonsense. If you win conquest, you can easily clear any of the other victory conditions too. On top of that, if you took vassals you can lock them from ever researching space techs and capture culture cities before taking them (taking a capitol hard-code breaks culture attempts).

It's pretty easy to clear any of the victory conditions when you've stomped on everybody to the point where they can't win at all.

Of course the rarest VC to trip on high levels is time, but that's basically just conquest you stop just short of and mash end turn 100+ times which is probably why.

 

[Gooblah]

The main problem with Huge maps are the sizes involved.

For example, on a recent game as Wang Kong on a Marathon 18 Civs Huge Terra/Low Sea Level (the game took about 5 seconds between turns starting roughly 0AD, then began to increase. I stopped around 250 AD), I had enough room for 12 of my own cities (I did conquer the Holy Romans, but they were unusually close for a Huge map), with some space for two-three cities with above-average overlap.

Logistics tend to be a pain - dozens of build queues, stack organization, Worker management (you can set them on automated, but leave one automated for each city; the rest should head to new cities to modify), etc. Honestly, it depends on patience. They're a lot of fun (religion takes on new meaning with usually 3-4 religious blocs, warring is more intense), but take a lot of processing power (for the computer and you). I have yet to finish one of these games once started

Check out Madscientist's final 'original' rpc.

 

[Jehoshua]

Its definitely not impossible. I know that when i could still play the earth map before my computer started dying on me i could fairly easily get a conquest or domination win. (Neals KotW persia game is a classic example of a high level (immortal) domination win on a big map)

Now for a normal non earth huge map it may be harder because you'd have less nearby civs, but it is not impossible. It does take time but its possible.

 

[Sincro]

The main problem with Huge maps are the sizes involved.

Amen to that. I was playing a huge tectonics map to a diplomanation victory, and I was so thankful when it was finally over.

On the amusing side, seeing that I had built nearly 200 Navy Seals was pretty cool.

-Sinc

 

[mfie]

Domination isn't hard at all, you just start making units at one point, and then you conquer till 1 enemy is gone, then you attack a second and when he has 1 city, you ask all his techs, then you conquer a thirth and ask his techs too, do this unitl you've 50% land
I find space race harder because I always make a hugh tech lead having about 6 citys, but then I get stuck because I have almost none production to build the parts

 

[Kbo]

Domination isn't hard at all, you just start making units at one point, and then you conquer till 1 enemy is gone, then you attack a second and when he has 1 city, you ask all his techs, then you conquer a thirth and ask his techs too, do this unitl you've 50% land
I find space race harder because I always make a hugh tech lead having about 6 citys, but then I get stuck because I have almost none production to build the parts

lol, if it was that easy i doubt they'd have forums about the game When you get into higher levels you find you dont have any tech lead, more of trading to try and get back to tech parity until you're able to begin war.

 

[SilverTab]

I hear you guys. I just have to get back into expert mode (referring to the calibur of my playing). One bad habit is that I'm a build-a-holic. I have to watch myself. That's why cultural is usually the victory that sneaks up on me while I'm trying to win in another way. Military strategy was the hardest thing for me to get used to in Civ4, because well... wars are a LOT harder to fight in this game! The jump in difficulty from 3 was pretty steep. It takes me too long to conquer my rivals if I fall into bad strategy.

I play huge pretty much exclusively, too, because I always lean toward REx. That lends itself well to a domination win, but every time I go for it some other civ always refuses to accept a beatdown, and wars are harder to win in the late game. Especially if you don't have a huge tech advantage.

What leaders do you like to use for domination?

 

[mariogreymist]

My preferred method for getting a conquest win on a huge map (my preferred victory condition, which I have done fairly often) is to wage war in the classic period or middle ages, building a kingdom 3 times the size of anyone else's. Generally, if you can manage the economy of such a huge kingdom, you can be rolling tanks vs rifles for much of your later warring. I strongly recommend corporations for such an undertaking, as their power is amplified by the massive amount of resources one can accrue on a huge map, and also by the large number of cities one can place them in. I generally time my later wars to come long enough before my opponent gets a key military tech to prevent them fielding units. For example: attack someone with your rifles/cannons when they start researching steel. Cannons vs no cannons isn't a fair fight. Avoid fair fights whenever possible.

I've actually taken to playing huge, marathon, conquest only games. Yes, they take a while. My one peeve is that the AIs don't seem to grasp the restricted victory conditions. In a game I am playing now, I vassalized DeGaule (last time I give quarter to that deadbeat, for sure) and he never attacks when I go to war. It's crazy - the only way for him to win is to break free of me, but he needs more land/population to do it. So his one hope(short of me losing the land I have) is to take a lot of land. He hasn't tried to take any.

 

[WuphonsReach]

I only (mostly) play Tectonics (60% water). Huge, Marathon, with about 15 civs.

Past 1800, it gets *really* slow, and you'll be restarting Civ4 every few hours. Especially once you start marching 50+ unit stacks around. Patience is key, lots and lots of patience along with not trying to rush. When I start rushing, I know it's time to stop and go do something else and come back to the game the next day.

In my current game, I have enough pop for domination, I just don't have the land area yet. I've war-dec'd every other bloc and I already have 6 vassals. So now I'm waging a war of aggression in the 1900s trying to get that last 5% of the land area. All because I accepted a vassal offer without realizing it would put me into war with my nearby neighbor (and close friend at the time).

Oh well, even though I wasn't ready for that war, I still pulled it off, then rolled through the next country over. The winning is inevitable at this point, it's more a question of whether it will be by domination or by the UN vote.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

50+ unit stacks are standard size fare. Huge marathon probably can involve 200-300+ unit stacks...or if the AI has that much, nukes.

 

[huerfanista]

I've won dom/conq on huge maps many times. It's easier in 3.19 than it used to be, since vassals are SO much more useful now. The biggest challenge was MadScientist's Genghis huge/marathon challenge under 3.17: you had to win by conquest, not domination, so it took some very careful land management not to go over the land limit. My advice for dom/conquest on huge: war early, war often. Get a land advantage early and leverage it for all you've got. You should not spend more than a few turns at peace. (This obviously doesn't apply to deity, and perhaps not to immortal either; both of those are above my pay grade). JC is obviously the easiest civ to do this with. ORG helps immensely with costs, and Praets are good until gunpowder. Another great leader for this is Darius - FIN/ORG makes for an uncrashable economy, and immortals will definitely secure that early land advantage for you.