COTM 06 Pre-Game Discussion

[A'AbarachAmadan]

uXs: First of all welcome to our little asylum.

A couple of things to remember:

1. Expand as quickly as possible (having 10+ cities by 1000 BC is common)
2. Contact the AI often about trades for techs & slaves
3. Keep your military small early (some people probably will end the AA with < 5 units)
4. It's cheaper to let your neighbor build a wonder and then take it from them than to build it yourself
5. Try to get our despotism ASAP
6. Pick a victory type (generally Diplomatic is the easiest) and play to that goal
7. At the monarch level, you'll only need couple of luxuries to keep the people content, so skip temples for a while.
8. Read some of the War Academy write ups on early game strategies (Crackers: Opening Moves & Bamspeedy's Babylon Diety Settlers are 2 good ones)
9. Have fun, remember it's just a game

Edit: Almost forgot to mention exploration. Get those scouts and curraghs out a exploring. Meeting other tribes will reduce tech costs and present trading opportunities.
And to check out this thread on Monarch training, it's got a lot of great stuff
LINK

Some more ideas regarding the above by reference.
1) On a standard map I have at least 2 cities dedicated to settler production as early as possible. In my last game I had 5 cities building nothing but settlers by the end of the AA, but that map had lot o' empty land. You won't normally find that at higher levels.
1a) I like to set up settler 'factory' cities before exploring, but I see lots of folks who explore first. My general rule of thumb is granery first for expansionist civs and 2 warriors, then granery for others. Many would disagree and go for more exploration first, but you want to start your real expansion as soon as possible.
1b) I often start my 1st tech at min (always tier 2) and then max for a while. This gives some money so I can run a deficit later; it allows you to use the luxury slider for happiness instead of temples while still maintaining a good research rate.
2) Use CivAssist or other micromanagement program to help you find out when your contacts have stuff to trade.
3) I'm the opposite here, but I do expand, expand, expand (peacefully) first. Then I try to get at least 8-10 Swordsmen,Horsemen and attack. I set up cities which build barracks, then exclusively military and nothing else (maybe marketplace after I gets 4+ luxuries). Usually warriors upgraded to swordsmen, then exclusively horsemen so I can upgrade them all the way to Cavalry. Focus on eliminating enemies access to resources so I will have the technological advantage in the war. When at your war limit (i.e. can't expand quickly anymore) make peace where they give you lot o' stuff even though you had to stop anyway.
4) Agree. I only build Wonders if it will be a huge advantage (i.e. GreatLighthouse if on Island Map; Pyramids on a Single Landmass maybe; Great Library in PTW if I get a Leader at the right time) or if I need one for a Golden Age. The only exception is a 20K victory scenario, but that is by far the hardest victory type to me, which I may try this time.
5) Republic slingshot in C3C
6) Have a plan for each area (research plan, FP build, Palace jump in PTW, etc.). Be flexible as no plan stays intact upon first contact.
8) Also some good posts in the QSC thread that layout details.
9) Just a game?! Thought we were fanatics.

Other: If you like to warmonger, then trading techs is an artform as you want to be very picky about who you give to (usually only scientific civs for me to get to a new era ahead of my enemies). If peaceful, you can trade, trade, gift, gift your way into the modern era.

 

[smackster]

I've got a question for all of you Domination/Conquest masters.

If you have a start with lots of room to expand do you wait until all of the free space is filled before going to war (consentrate on expansion peacefully) or do you hit a point in the game where you decide "it's time to do some 'ing" How do you make your decision that it's the right time to go to war.

I'll start my first conquest as soon as possible, generally I'm looking for at least 10-15 vet swords or horses (or some combination) but this will vary based on the lay of the land (choke points are easier) and game level (lower the level, less troops needed).

The only times I attack before that time, is if I have no resources and need to get them, or find an AI without bronze working and have a quick go.

If there is still land to fill, then I keep the settler factory pumping while this is going on.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

I've got a question for all of you Domination/Conquest masters.

If you have a start with lots of room to expand do you wait until all of the free space is filled before going to war (consentrate on expansion peacefully) or do you hit a point in the game where you decide "it's time to do some 'ing" How do you make your decision that it's the right time to go to war.

No master, but Domination is by far my favorite form and the only one I'm really decent at. My focus is 1) city expansion, 2) exploration, 3) military expansion. I do this by the following:
-In my first few cities I try to set up 2 settler-only cities (on a standard map). I prefer one to be my capital if it is in the right location (resources) in which case I start w/ a granery.
-The rest of my core cities will build barracks, then military to set up my first military strike. May start w/out barracks if needed. Use these for exploration also. In C3C try to get Curraghs out quickly.
-Sidenote: One early city will/may start the FB or Wonder as needed.
-Wait for about 8-10 swordmen/horsemen then start fighting. A few more on higher difficulty levels as they usually have a better military. I focus almost exclusively on offensive units. I'll abondon cities rather than sue for peace unless it is one of my core cities.
-At this point it is a balance between continued settler expansion and military expansion. The latter tends to lead to more of the former. If there is lots o' land I add more settler only cities. I think forward rushing settlers may be a better alternative, but I haven't tried it.
-Not sure whether it is better to fill in with Settlers or rush Temples. I think a balanced combination would work well. The Temples cost alot, but fewer deposed cities is a plus.
-Research is important. I try to only trade w/ scientific civs to get early MA entrance over my enemies. I try to get to Chivalry/Military Tradition as targets, while ignoring other advancements unless necessary.

Happy Hunting as you achieve World Peace through strength.

 

[bradleyfeanor]

I've got a question for all of you Domination/Conquest masters.

If you have a start with lots of room to expand do you wait until all of the free space is filled before going to war (consentrate on expansion peacefully) or do you hit a point in the game where you decide "it's time to do some 'ing" How do you make your decision that it's the right time to go to war.

Well, I'm no conquest or domination master, not by a long shot! But, I always try to begin conquest long before I have filled all the expansion room. Usually I begin the attack with a stack of 8-10 swords or horsemen, although this can vary dramatically based on the proximity of the AIs and the difficulty level. The ultimate goal is to be acquiring territory with a stack or two of military while you are still acquiring territory from settlers as well. Going to war before you run out of expansion room is necessary in order to avoid a period of stagnation which will drop you below the Jason "curve." Alamo did some wonderful graphs a while back that illustrated this fact. Unfortunately, I can't remember which thread they are in.

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Are there any corruption experts out there that can answer the following for this map? I usually swag corruption, but thought it would be nice to know exact values. I've attempted to calculate the following:

In despotism, connected to trade network, no FP:
3% per unit of distance; 3% per unit of rank

In republic, w/ FP:
2% per unit of distance; 2% per unit of rank

Courthouses will lower distance to 50% of above and rank only by about 15% of the above. I know this is only for cities under the Nopt, but basically Republic/FP combined will lower the corruption/waste by 1/3.

 

[Randy]

@Mistfit

A lot of games my first warrior will start a war as soon as I find an AI worker or settler.
It's some what east to play a cat and mouse game with the AI. Just keep jumping in and out of their fitst city. After a while their whole offience will be chasing that warrior.

If they get a second city or they get close to your cities you can make peace for every thing they have, techs, gold, cities (1 or 2 at the most), workers.

This worked vary well for me against Cartage in GOTM 35

 

[gervond]

Originially posted by AINWOOD
Overall, I am against it as well. I would prefer that the two free techs were random, or that the AI was a little more interested in philosophy themselves.

There are two ? It took me a while to get the "Philosophy Slingshot" but there is a second ?

Please enlighten me

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

99.99% ainwood confused this with the ToE. Only one tech from Philo.
But ainwood's reasoning applies to both.

 

[Denniz]

All right, I just finished this game I was playing. Right on time for my first Game of the Month.

It was a truly pathetic game though... I had to play up to the turn limit. (And it was a chieftain game...)

There's no way I'm going to be able to win this CotM game. I'm probably going to be defeated somewhere in the Ancient Age.

Welcome uXs. Look at the bright-side you have fewer bad habits to unlearn, so you will be kicking butt on emperor before you know it.

denyd & A'AbarachAmadan covered most of it. I second the suggestion of reading the War Academy articles and checking out the QSC timelines of the really good players from the spoiler threads.

A few lessons learned:

• Land + Pop = points - Expand to the domination limit regardless victory condition. (See SirPleb's article on milking score in WA)
• Micromanaging the Luxury slider at the beginning instead of using units for MP.
• Don't build defensive units. It seems strange but a couple warriors can be a mobile defense allowing more units/production for other things.
• Don't overbuild improvements. One or two granaries (best food cities) and barracks in other productive cities is all I normally build in the AA.
• Don't build early wonders. The shields are more valuable for other things. (You will be able to build them, if you really want to, once you get to the point where you can win without them. )
• Try starting out with science at minimum and use the extra cash to trade for some of those early techs.

Most of this about early micromanaging your of cities and focusing all your resources on expansion.

BTW, in case it wasn't clear, the repulic slingshot is researching so you can use the free tech from philosophy to get Republic. This only, of cource. (Writing, Code of Laws, Philosophy...) Most do writing at min research and the rest at max.

Good luck.

 

[Xevious]

In addition to all the great information already posted, you should also take a look at cracker's Opening Moves article. One of the biggest mistakes I made early on was working less important tiles. This article will teach you how to figure out what tiles are the best and which should be worked first. A common early mistake is irrigating grassland in Despotism. If a tile produces 3 or more food, shields or commerce, then you lose 1. Grass is 2, irrigated is 3, but loses 1 in Despotism so irrigating it is a waste of time at that point.

 

[Hannabir]

An alternative is to research Mathematics instead, and then trade for Writing, because Writing has a much higher priority with the AI.

 

[Sir Clive]

Ah well - I have only attempted GOTM once and I managed to take the ambulance award for the lowest score

I am only at Regent / Monarch level so although a lot of people have said that this level will be too easy for them I am pleased since it means I will be able to have another go !

 

[Hannabir]

A common early mistake is irrigating grassland in Despotism. If a tile produces 3 or more food, shields or commerce, then you lose 1. Grass is 2, irrigated is 3, but loses 1 in Despotism so irrigating it is a waste of time at that point.

In Conquests, this quickly is no longer a mistake. You will become Republic (or Monarchy) so fast that you can start preparing for it right away. To mine tiles that you need to be irrigated just a few turns later is the mistake now.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

Can't wait to play this one as I prefer the Conquests and GOTM36 has been very frustrating and not much fun

I will likely settle in the starting location. I want the fish! and will work the Wines tile first, the worker move as stated by many others early can reveal some tiles up above. The scout will go off to the East and then either NE or SE, we'll see.

Last time I played Portugal, I won Diplomatic and Spaceship, so I would like to try that again. (Even though it will depend on the map as I uncover it, these two Victory goals are not as map dependent) Based on my previous experiences I hope/plan for a early tech lead, and early exit from the AA. Will try the Republic slingshot for the first time, as I normally take Literature. Being expansionist, I hope that I will be moving along nicely that I won't have much choice. I my other games with Portugal, I collected pretty much the entire AA Tech collection from GHs. But something tells me that it won't be that easy.

 

[MikeH]

An alternative is to research Mathematics instead, and then trade for Writing, because Writing has a much higher priority with the AI.

The AI often doesn't research Writing, which is why it's a favourite for minimum research even in vanilla and PTW, which don't have the free tech for Philosophy. The AI's preferred second tier research appears to be Iron Working and Mysticism in my experience. Of course they may pop Writing from a goody hut, particularly if they're expansionist, but even then they tend to ignore Philosophy.

 

[eldar]

They're unlikely to pop Writing. If they're researching IW or Mysti, they'll get a 1st tier tech, then (I think) HBR, then the other out of IW/Mysti, before they get Writing from a hut.

Neil.

 

[MikeH]

It depends on what they've already got and the amount of GHs of course, but I've been beaten to Writing before in C3C, I suppose they could have researched it, as I believe there is a random element to their research choices, but on the whole they seem to prefer advances that will give them access to a unit or wonder.

 

[Tone]

That fits with alexman's research. See this link from the War Acadamy for further details:<link>

 

[SirPleb]

Speaking of Sir Pleb, I had a little fantasy that he was busy because Firaxis finally agreed to pay him to write the Conquests patch, although I fear that is a "fantasy" indeed.

I wish it were so but no such luck.

 

[TheArchduke]

When will CotM 6 will be avaiable for download actually?