COTM 06 Pre-Game Discussion

[Roland Ehnström]

I'm with you there, Hannabir.

-- Roland

 

[killerloop]

Sending scouts out early is a hugely advantegeous. In COTM05 I think I popped 9 or 10 huts till well over turn 40 as I recall. I was lucky as well, no gold or maps, but 1 settler, 1 city and the rest techs. So again for this game I'll build scouts asap to go popping...
My strategy in COTM05 (3Billions) was to stay on the high ground (hills of mountains). The C-scouts were awsome there.

anyway, my input on early scouts....

 

[ainwood]

Is it possible to turn off the Philosophy slingshot as well? The first couple of times it is nice to have a new government so early, but now the novelty is over. It forces one to choose a single tech strategy, and on higher levels the luck factor is nasty.

A bit late for this COTM, but an interesting concept. It does seem that many games have been quite linear in the ancient ages of late....

 

[Civgeek]

A bit late for this COTM, but an interesting concept. It does seem that many games have been quite linear in the ancient ages of late....

Pretty hard to chose not to go after a free high cost tech like Republic; I actually think the sling shot detracts a lot from the early game as it removes the need for a lot (often any) thinking in choices for tech development.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Just another argument for Emperor+

 

[ainwood]

Just another argument for Emperor+

Yes, but then we get the complaints that it is too hard.

Patience - if you notice we're on the upwards slope now, so you'll have a couple of months of nice difficult games.

 

[eldar]

@Ainwood: leave the Philo slingshot on for Sumeria. Then switch it OFF. It's making for very uninteresting AA writeups, so far.

COTMs I'm looking forward to:
Carthage. For whatever reason, I like playing them. Seafaring+Industrious seem to bind together very, very well.
Aztecs. Taking away Religious gives them a whole new dynamic, and increasing the cost of the Jags makes them that more of a challenge to play.
Iroquois. A Civ I've not every played. Ever. And since C3C completely changes them... why not?

Neil.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm waiting for Ainwood to surprise us with a game that gives us a perfect starting point, perfectly timed UU, lots of resources and room to expand without trouble. For those who recognize it, it will be a chance for record breaking scores.

 

[TheArchduke]

CotM 3 was fun in some weird, twisted kind of way, but I doubt that the majority of people won even with conquest class game.

I love challenges, though, so a high difficulty is good.

 

[MikeH]

Just another argument for Emperor+

I've found on Emperor, you can often get to Philosophy first, but not if you mess around with CoL, so you still get the free tech, but not Republic. I suppose it does make for a greater choice, but I tend to always go for Literature to trade unless I'm Seafaring, when I'll go for map making if no-one else has it.

I admit thought that I've only tried Demi-god once with pretty disasterous results and never tried Deity or Sid.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

MikeH: That's exactly my point. On Emperor, DG and with a bit luck/ good Civ (England!) on Deity, you have a good chance to succeed with Writing@min ->Philo@max.
Pottery first is doable, but not anything between Writing and Philo.
Thus, it's exactly the opposite to a linear slingshot - a strategic decision.
Philo itself isn't that useful, and you really have to make a choice which Tech you pick:
*MM as usually the most useful immediately
*CoL to head for Republic next
*Construction since it's worth the most for the AI
*Currency for Markets and because it's usually ignored by the AI
*Literature if you want to assure the GLib
*Monarchy if you managed to trade for Poly before (not that rare with several REL Civs in the game)

I'd really hate to see the free Tech removed. Would be the same as disabling the GLib, because everyone will build it on the lower/mid levels without really needing it.

So I don't want to open the can of worms about "More challenging Levels" again, I just want to point out that the "Republic Slingshot" is a non-issue on Emperor and above.

 

[Mistfit]

I have never played Port. before so I decided to play a two starts with the settings given.

1st: Moderate size continent with the Germans as my close next door neighbor I scouted the opposite direction first so missed that they were so close to me. They sacked my capital within 30 turns. I had just set up my second city. (So much for the Farmers Gambit)

2nd: A large island (should have built another scout to grab more goodies) with the Mayans and the Greek. Lots and Lots of room to expand. Ainwood would have loved this one because the only lux with in 20 tiles of the cap. was gems (hard to get to) and the only iron with in 20 tiles was much closer to the Greek than us.

What I learned from my limited play testing:
- Build 2 scouts (at Least)
- Farmers Gambit does not work well if your next door neighbor is named Otto
- Wet - Temp - 5bill - Seems to give you lots of shields in BG's This may be just chance but on both maps their seemed to be an inordinate amount of them.
- Republic Slingshot is a gimme - Even if you loose your capital.

 

[Denniz]

What I learned from my limited play testing:
- Build 2 scouts (at Least)
- Farmers Gambit does not work well if your next door neighbor is named Otto
- Wet - Temp - 5bill - Seems to give you lots of shields in BG's This may be just chance but on both maps their seemed to be an inordinate amount of them.
- Republic Slingshot is a gimme - Even if you loose your capital.

I have done a few test games. I would second the points about scouts and Otto. (and some of his like-minded friends)

I didn't notice a excess of BG but I am not sure what normal would be for comparison.

I suspect the 60% increases the land tiles without changing the number resources to be found on a standard sized map.

In my last COTM, I found a way to screw up the slingshot. I popped a GH for Philosophy while still researching CoL. IIRC, I did not get an option to "look at the big picture". Does anyone know if there is a pattern to how GH techs are assigned?

My impression is that it is bottom up, left to right except for the one you are researching. So the rule *might* be: if you have everything on the first two tiers, are reseraching CoL and have everything below Philosophy don't pop a GH.

[Edit]
Sorry nothing so simple. I loaded my autosaves into CRpStat. As you can see, I only had HBR from the the 3rd tier of techs. But I *did* have all 1st & 2nd tier techs. So the rule will have to be don't pop GH if you have all the first 2 tiers.

Year Tech
3950BC Masonry; Pottery
3200BC Alphabet
2550BC Bronze Working; The Wheel; Warrior Code; Ceremonial Burial
2270BC Mysticism
2190BC Horseback Riding
1910BC Iron Working
1750BC Writing
1500BC Philosophy; Code of Laws
1350BC Mathematics
1150BC Polytheism
950BC Literature
925BC Map Making
610BC Monarchy
390BC Construction
350BC Currency
[/Edit]

 

[bradleyfeanor]

I'm waiting for Ainwood to surprise us with a game that gives us a perfect starting point, perfectly timed UU, lots of resources and room to expand without trouble. For those who recognize it, it will be a chance for record breaking scores.

I believe that was called COTM5. Those scores were through the roof! It just turned out that the "UU" ended up being a little old horseman. If we had been the Iroquois, then I think some of the players would have come close to the Jason-breaking 500bc date. I love the Iroquois, but Sir Pleb is an absolute demon with them: Sid Shmid (Sir Pleb's Hall of Fame Game: if you haven't seen it, you should really take a peak)

Speaking of Sir Pleb, I had a little fantasy that he was busy because Firaxis finally agreed to pay him to write the Conquests patch, although I fear that is a "fantasy" indeed.

Thanks remconius for your breakdown of the scout moves. Based on your analysis, I think I will send my scout E, NE to reveal the region we would acquire if the settler moved 1 step NE. If that reveals a cow or wheat, then the worker will move to the wines and I will settle NE (if necessary to reach the bonus). If the scout move reveals nothing special, then the worker will go SE to the BG which will reveal the two tiles we would get by settling on the spot. This will delay irrigation of the wine, but I think it would be worth it to have reliable knowledge of the starting area. At that point I will decide where I wish to settle, although I doubt I will leave the river--unless I sense that there is one of Ainwood's "bread crumb trails" present.

 

[TimBentley]

Does anyone know if there is a pattern to how GH techs are assigned?

I believe it is the least expensive tech other than the one you're researching. I don't know how they are assigned when there are multiple cheapest techs.

 

[Darkness]

Actually on Demigod the philosophy slingshot is still very well possible. For example in COTM3 I even did code of laws before philosophy and still got it first...

BTW: I am very much opposed to turning the philosphy slingshot off! For the very simple reason that I don't want the COTM to become the 'mod óf the month'. As little change as possible from the normal epic game is best IMHO...

 

[Mistfit]

I've got a question for all of you Domination/Conquest masters.

If you have a start with lots of room to expand do you wait until all of the free space is filled before going to war (consentrate on expansion peacefully) or do you hit a point in the game where you decide "it's time to do some 'ing" How do you make your decision that it's the right time to go to war.

 

[ainwood]

BTW: I am very much opposed to turning the philosphy slingshot off! For the very simple reason that I don't want the COTM to become the 'mod óf the month'. As little change as possible from the normal epic game is best IMHO...

Overall, I am against it as well. I would prefer that the two free techs were random, or that the AI was a little more interested in philosophy themselves.

 

[uXs]

All right, I just finished this game I was playing. Right on time for my first Game of the Month.

It was a truly pathetic game though... I had to play up to the turn limit. (And it was a chieftain game...)

There's no way I'm going to be able to win this CotM game. I'm probably going to be defeated somewhere in the Ancient Age.

 

[denyd]

uXs: First of all welcome to our little asylum.

A couple of things to remember:

1. Expand as quickly as possible (having 10+ cities by 1000 BC is common)
2. Contact the AI often about trades for techs & slaves
3. Keep your military small early (some people probably will end the AA with < 5 units)
4. It's cheaper to let your neighbor build a wonder and then take it from them than to build it yourself
5. Try to get our despotism ASAP
6. Pick a victory type (generally Diplomatic is the easiest) and play to that goal
7. At the monarch level, you'll only need couple of luxuries to keep the people content, so skip temples for a while.
8. Read some of the War Academy write ups on early game strategies (Crackers: Opening Moves & Bamspeedy's Babylon Diety Settlers are 2 good ones)
9. Have fun, remember it's just a game

Edit: Almost forgot to mention exploration. Get those scouts and curraghs out a exploring. Meeting other tribes will reduce tech costs and present trading opportunities.
And to check out this thread on Monarch training, it's got a lot of great stuff
LINK