I actually did a behavioural study on pigs. I found that very small environmental enrichments (such as wooden blocks on the feet of the food troughs) caused a massive reduction in the rate of aggressive behaviours. Although it is not a direct comparison (because of the difference in age and gender composition), the almost complete lack of this sort of behaviour in outdoor breeding colonies also tends to support the claim that it is the conditions that make this a major problem.
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Cruelty to animals
- Thread starter Kyriakos
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I actually did a behavioural study on pigs. I found that very small environmental enrichments (such as wooden blocks on the feet of the food troughs) caused a massive reduction in the rate of aggressive behaviours. Although it is not a direct comparison (because of the difference in age and gender composition), the almost complete lack of this sort of behaviour in outdoor breeding colonies also tends to support the claim that it is the conditions that make this a major problem.
Farm Boy
they're all reactions
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Well, I am saying confinement can cause these things, pigs are a decent case. Even in traditional penned environments there is some confinement and inter-herd violence happens. Outdoor roaming operations for pigs have largely given way for a multitude of reasons. Pigs don't really graze on roughage to the extent say cows do, so they won't get as high a percent of their intake from being allowed to roam thus necessitating large inputs of food anyways. That takes up a lot of space which is pretty poorly spent. They also smell, so if you live in the states and the wind blows the wrong way any random d-bag that moved from the burbs to near your farm can shut you down on a nuisance(smell) violation.
I would personally have no interest in trying a confinement operation, but if they are designed well it doesn't allow much opportunity for the animals to be violent with each other. Anything other than low rates would indicate a poor design, which is bad for the operator as well.
I would personally have no interest in trying a confinement operation, but if they are designed well it doesn't allow much opportunity for the animals to be violent with each other. Anything other than low rates would indicate a poor design, which is bad for the operator as well.
robo-snickers
frisco pimp
Lets be honest, if animals had the power, they would torcher us, skin us, keep us in cages, starve us, do whatever horrible things we do to them to us.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
For me it is about the quality of the meat. An animal that has not had a tortured life produces better quality of meat thus it is in our best interest to make sure the animal is treated well.
A related question: It would seem that most (if not all) have killed insects. In reality insects are killed by humans on a daily basis, as pests, experiments (for small kids) or even out of pure chance (in a daily walk one might step on a few ants with the result of ending their life).
However it seems that there is no moral outrage for this. I wonder why. After all just like we cannot reanimate a pig, we can't reanimate an ant either, so we are taking away something we cannot reproduce/fix.
As someone who killed his share of ants when a small child, i regret all that. However it is unrealistic to drastically limit the deaths of that species as well.
However it seems that there is no moral outrage for this. I wonder why. After all just like we cannot reanimate a pig, we can't reanimate an ant either, so we are taking away something we cannot reproduce/fix.
As someone who killed his share of ants when a small child, i regret all that. However it is unrealistic to drastically limit the deaths of that species as well.
I think it's a 'sentience' thing; there are very few people who argue that flies are sentient and so it's outrageous for me to reach for the CBRN weapons when I have one in my kitchen, but I think most people would react somewhat differently if I went out with 'dog-spray' and did the same to larger animals.
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
This is trolling, right? Just want to make sure.
Farm Boy
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I think that extends as far as the animal isn't inconvenient and so long as the person doesn't have to witness the extermination.
Stray dogs are a nuisance and we euthanize tons of them that we can't feed/store. Animal adoption places are great, but we don't have the demand for the supply. People don't tend to get mad at the dog-catcher when that is essentially what he's doing, just a step or two removed.
People think wolves, coyotes, and mountain lions are noble animals that should be preserved(they should be preserved, btw) but once pet cats and dogs start getting eaten in a neighborhood more than a few people want somebody to go out and "take care of the problem." Just so long as it isn't them.
warpus
In pork I trust
IdiotsOpposite
Boom, headshot.
It's a fairly good capitalist argument.
warpus
In pork I trust
As an argument it is rather monty python-esque. Which wouldn't be that bad if it was a joke and not an argument
Farm Boy
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It's a pretty decent argument when the only reason you are keeping something around is so that you can slaughter it. You have already made the ethical decision that its meat is worth more than its life, so the quality of the meat correlating with the quality of its life is a valid point.
After all -
After all -
Excuse me, you're talking about bacon here
warpus
In pork I trust
It would be a decent argument if there weren't any arguments much better than it. In comparison with those it is rather poor.
Well, the only argument that's going to get anything done is that 'it's more in our interests not to do it than to do it'; purely moral arguments rarely stick and create lasting change
Farm Boy
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Not sure about this. I am assuming that what we are primarily interested in here is the producer, it is their actions after all, that are the topic of this discussion. When you are actually practicing husbandry and you are the one either personally doing or enabling the killing of animals for meat you become more interested in what I'll call stewardship. If you are going to keep the animal and kill it then you had best make the most of it. The animal's life is your livelihood, it becomes a form or respect to use it well.
duckstab
Child of Noble Family
I've heard this ethical theory characterized as "the greatest depth for the greatest span". There are two orthogonal dimensions along which we have to evaluate our ethical choices, and it isn't always possible to maximize both simultaneously. If all you care about is "depth", then you put every being into a hierarchy and "good" is, by definition, what best serves those at the top. If all you care about is "span", then all beings are equal and "good" is what best serves the greatest number. In reality, you have to balance the two considerations because if you go too far in either direction you run into trouble -- fascism and eco-terrorism are two examples of going to such extremes.
What you've intuited here is that there's a difference in depth between flies and dogs. Dogs are more complex and more capable of suffering, so you don't treat them the same as flies or inanimate objects.
I personally think small arthropods are sentient enough that I don't treat them as nonentities. If they're causing minimal risk to the human inhabitants of my home I'll move them outside rather than exterminating them if possible. If I did find it necessary to dispatch them I would attempt to do it as quickly and humanely as possible.
AlpsStranger
Jump jump on the tiger!
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I sometimes genuinely regret the way we treat animals. I object without remorse( or respect for soft-headed multicultural arguments ) to animal bloodsports and the like. On the other hand, I'm not sure this universe will ever afford us the luxury of doing much about it. Predation simply can't be helped and is an unavoidable feature of the concrete reality we are a part of. I only get really offended when people wallow in animal cruelty for its own sake. Fortunately, this isn't all that common ( at least where I live. )
So I'd prosecute the Michael Vick types as they come up, discourage the worst excesses in ranching, and encourage hunters to shoot straight
So I'd prosecute the Michael Vick types as they come up, discourage the worst excesses in ranching, and encourage hunters to shoot straight
Terxpahseyton
Nobody
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Beautifully put@AlpsStranger
I am convinced that one day we will grow animal products in tubes.
kochman
Deity
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Absolutely
