Crusader Kings 2
- Thread starter SouthernKing
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plarq
Crazy forever
Well, due to so many expansion packs, old stories do not hold anymore. In today's CK2 game, Ireland is no longer the safe haven for new comers. You'd rather started big, and play carefully with your vassals. For example, HRE 1066, West Francia 867, etc.
Lohrenswald
世界的 bottom ranked physicist
not any less than eu or ck
bah
Spoiler :
speaking as a dwarf fortress player, it's less intuitive than dwarf fortress
Lohrenswald
世界的 bottom ranked physicist
My friend dissagrees with you
You have some (lack of) vassal issues there.
I think I had just won a crusade or something. This is from four years ago. I was setting up to inherit France, conquer England, and usurp the HRE but a patch screwed me on England so I just said screw it all.
EgonSpengler
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These rules of succession are enough to make my head explode.
I decided to give Tir Chonaill another shot, and made a play for Tir Eoghain next door. Got my casus bellus, saved up gold for some mercs, invasion was going well... Bam! The King of Scotland decides he wants Tyrone and arrives with 5,000 men. I skedaddle. Scotland installs a usurper in Tyrone and then buggers off back to Scotland, leaving the usurper with a paltry army. Ha. Another chance. Back into the fray I go.
So I finally take Tir Eoghain, but then I get a warning that I'll lose it as soon as my current character dies. Can't figure out why. My current character dies. His heir gets Tir Chonaill, and his second son gets Tir Eoghain. So I'm back to square one, trying to figure out if I can have my brother assassinated or something.
WTH
I decided to give Tir Chonaill another shot, and made a play for Tir Eoghain next door. Got my casus bellus, saved up gold for some mercs, invasion was going well... Bam! The King of Scotland decides he wants Tyrone and arrives with 5,000 men. I skedaddle. Scotland installs a usurper in Tyrone and then buggers off back to Scotland, leaving the usurper with a paltry army. Ha. Another chance. Back into the fray I go.
So I finally take Tir Eoghain, but then I get a warning that I'll lose it as soon as my current character dies. Can't figure out why. My current character dies. His heir gets Tir Chonaill, and his second son gets Tir Eoghain. So I'm back to square one, trying to figure out if I can have my brother assassinated or something.
WTH
Oh, it sounds like you have Gavelkind. Which, if you're trying to build a large empire, is not so "kind". Under Gavelkind, the realm is divided among the sons (or daughters, if there are no sons and succession is agnatic-cognatic), with the eldest receiving the primary title, the second-oldest the secondary title, etc., and down on the list. So your eldest son received the County of Tir Chonaill, and the second received Tir Eoghain.
So what can you do? If both counties had been under a Duchy you controlled, the eldest would have received the Duchy and the primary County, and the younger would've controlled the county, but still been a vassal under the older. However, establishing a Duchy in one realm can be challenging.
It's for this reason that a lot of players prefer other succession options. Primogeniture (oldest inherits everything) is often preferred, but Ultimogeniture (youngest inherits everything) and Seniority (oldest family member inherits everything) are easier to implement. There's also Elective, where the candidate with the most votes inherits the title, but IIRC that's only at Kingdom-level and above.
I see you are getting the hang of political intrigue and treachery, though.
So what can you do? If both counties had been under a Duchy you controlled, the eldest would have received the Duchy and the primary County, and the younger would've controlled the county, but still been a vassal under the older. However, establishing a Duchy in one realm can be challenging.
It's for this reason that a lot of players prefer other succession options. Primogeniture (oldest inherits everything) is often preferred, but Ultimogeniture (youngest inherits everything) and Seniority (oldest family member inherits everything) are easier to implement. There's also Elective, where the candidate with the most votes inherits the title, but IIRC that's only at Kingdom-level and above.
I see you are getting the hang of political intrigue and treachery, though.
elective works for duchies but pdox nerfed it by making vassals much more likely to be asshats about it
irl elective was mostly just a formality (and a good Plan B if your ruler doesn't have any close male relatives), and it used to be in CK2 as well, but for the past year or two I've noticed vassals are much more willing to vote for just about anyone else, even if they like you
irl elective was mostly just a formality (and a good Plan B if your ruler doesn't have any close male relatives), and it used to be in CK2 as well, but for the past year or two I've noticed vassals are much more willing to vote for just about anyone else, even if they like you
EgonSpengler
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Yup, it's gavelkind. That was the piece I was missing. So I guess I have to take the other 3 counties of Ulster in the lifetime of one Earl before I can name myself Duke.
In other news, I think I missed an opportunity to take Oriel. At some point, they converted to Fraticelli. I didn't realize it until they declared war on me. 3 other earls offered to help me, and we stomped 'em pretty good. The peace agreement earned me some Prestige, but in retrospect it occurred to me that I could have used their conversion as a pretense to take Oriel. Instead, the Kingdom of the Isles swooped in and took it, the little [sons of unmarried parents]. I might have to deal with those guys, sooner or later. I think "The Kingdom of Ulster and the Hebrides" might look good on some letterhead...
In other news, I think I missed an opportunity to take Oriel. At some point, they converted to Fraticelli. I didn't realize it until they declared war on me. 3 other earls offered to help me, and we stomped 'em pretty good. The peace agreement earned me some Prestige, but in retrospect it occurred to me that I could have used their conversion as a pretense to take Oriel. Instead, the Kingdom of the Isles swooped in and took it, the little [sons of unmarried parents]. I might have to deal with those guys, sooner or later. I think "The Kingdom of Ulster and the Hebrides" might look good on some letterhead...
the problem with gavelkind is it's extremely hard to tell what your second duchy or county or what have you is
I could totally deal with gavelkind if I could make plans (or ideal scenario, assign the fiefs myself in a system where each one is worth X points, and your three sons need A, B, and C points each. However short they are of their allotted score is how big of a relations malus they get with each other so it doesn't have to be perfect, but if they get seriously shortcharged they'll go adventurer on your ass).
I could totally deal with gavelkind if I could make plans (or ideal scenario, assign the fiefs myself in a system where each one is worth X points, and your three sons need A, B, and C points each. However short they are of their allotted score is how big of a relations malus they get with each other so it doesn't have to be perfect, but if they get seriously shortcharged they'll go adventurer on your ass).
I thought it was simply the order of your titles on your character screen. I.E., if you have three counties, the one listed first goes to the oldest, 2nd goes to middle, 3rd goes to youngest; or if you only have two sons, first and third go to that one, 2nd goes to youngest.
As for what determines the order of those, your capital is always first, but I'd have to check for the ones after that. Can't remember if it's order acquired or # of building slots (or provinces if it's a duchy); I think it's the latter.
I do recall having read up on Gavelkind on the CKII Wiki, as well as elsewhere, when I first started playing. It's certainly a different element from other strategy games, but it's not that unpredictable once you get accustomed to it. Although it can certainly still be annoying at times.
Fun fact: Parts of Britain kept Gavelkind as their succession law until the early 20th century in real life.
As for what determines the order of those, your capital is always first, but I'd have to check for the ones after that. Can't remember if it's order acquired or # of building slots (or provinces if it's a duchy); I think it's the latter.
I do recall having read up on Gavelkind on the CKII Wiki, as well as elsewhere, when I first started playing. It's certainly a different element from other strategy games, but it's not that unpredictable once you get accustomed to it. Although it can certainly still be annoying at times.
Fun fact: Parts of Britain kept Gavelkind as their succession law until the early 20th century in real life.
EgonSpengler
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I've been watching Vikings.
No mod. But yeah, the werewolf part is what got me.Other than being a werewolf (are you running a mod?), that doesn't sound like a particularly unusual character.
"Emperor Hugues the Bold of Francia was widely regarded by contemporaries as being the embodiment of all seven virtues. He famously claimed Jesus spoke to him, yet was known to manifest somewhat erratic behavior, notably running naked and killing dogs, pigs and vassals unhappy enough to cross paths with him during full moon. Afterwards, he would seclude himself in a badger`s den for some deep religious contemplation, later emerging ever more pious and godly, usually to pass some controversial law (examples include The Turnip Act, The Pants Act, The Hole in the Wall Act or The Cessation of Violence Act) or to name yet another one of his horses Chancellor. Some historians say this undermines the credibility of his claims of divine connection, while others see proof of God working in mysterious ways. How he came to hold his moniker is another of those mysteries, because several credible witnesses attest the good Emperor was liable to faint at the sight of blood - unless the Moon happened to be full, that is."
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