Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[Hippo8085]

Especially this coast that is infinitely better than the other one? Perhaps I should go back to only identifying with California.

 

[civ_king]

Hey, my comment earlier that may have been deleted from misinterpretation..
Perhaps Poland's color should be darkened? It's a hot pink right now and really stands out in Europe, while the red on the Polish flag is also a bit darker. And Norway's purpilish pink also is a little femmy for the tough and strong Vikings.

It's also Pink in EU3 and Victoria II.

I know it distinguishes, but it's bloody pink for Poland! Poland isn't a pink country, China was okay for pink. It's celestial over there. Khmer and the Mughals have shades of green next to them, why shouldn't Poland and Russia have shades of red? Just the difference between Maroon and Brick red is good.

As for the Vikings, I suggest a calm Grainy color. Like #F5DEB3. It's kind of desolate, but gives images of the farmlands. It kind of makes you want to get out and attack someone else. Or maybe a similiar color to the Prussians, with a slight difference going back to the Mughal and Khmer example. Even the old color would be good if nothing else.

Actually, the Viking colour is the same one as in Civ IV

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Let's not even start with how many colors that were not RED or GOLD were applied to China throughout the Civilization Franchise:

CivII: Light Blue
CivIII: Light Blue
CivIV: Magenta
CivRev: Orange
CivV: Green. Green. GREEN.

Also, as a Chinese person, I am ambivalent towards the "China was okay for pink. It's celestial over there." comment.
What is that even supposed to mean? How often have you even seen the color pink in anything representing China as a culture?
And If you're insinuating that pink is too feminine enough for Poland & Vikings (who aren't even pink) but it's okay to represent China,
I think I can come to the appropriate conclusion about how you seem to think about East Asians.

 

[hoplitejoe]

I fully support the de-gaying of DoC and I have suggestions
Men wearing skirts are gay, this means Warriors, some Workers, Swordsmen and loads more will need to be replaced. In a similar vain, The winged Hussars look like right gays.
In the Aztec flag thing, what are those snakes doing to each other? Gay.
Wine and Spice should be removed from the game, no way manly enough to have improvements built on.
For leader names I think Basil should be changed (to Bret maybe?) Louis should be changed to Max. I would suggest you change Wang Kon, but he is east Asian so it fits right?

 

[Solzhenitsyn]

Holy hell guys, leave the guy alone. He didn't say anything about the color pink being gay -- and lavender IS a feminine color. However, the color doesn't look lavender on my screen.
As for his suggestions on Norway and Poland, I think his beige color is an okay idea, it'd be nice to refresh their colors. But I support his idea on Poland, it should be a bit darker.

But c'mon guys, stop bashing him for being an American, you guys are being complete s and twisting his words. If he wasn't from America, you wouldn't be pointing out his nationality.

 

[Hippo8085]

All the people pointing out his specific nationality are American.
I should run off to Canada. Probably Vancouver Island. Then I could still claim to be west.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Holy hell guys, leave the guy alone. He didn't say anything about the color pink being gay -- and lavender IS a feminine color. However, the color doesn't look lavender on my screen.
As for his suggestions on Norway and Poland, I think his beige color is an okay idea, it'd be nice to refresh their colors. But I support his idea on Poland, it should be a bit darker.

But c'mon guys, stop bashing him for being an American, you guys are being complete s and twisting his words. If he wasn't from America, you wouldn't be pointing out his nationality.

Okay.

Let's break this down. Real talk.

The color first of all, is MAGENTA. Not Lavender. Not "Hot Pink". Magenta.

Second of all, he outright said that the color was feminine.
You even admit that yourself. Why then, if it's too "feminine" to represent the Vikings or the Polish, is it okay to represent China with?

Even if he digs himself out of the homophobia hole, he jumps right into the racist one.
So China suddenly becomes the land of half-men who wear pink and are totally "celestial", amirite?

Third of all, you don't have to jump on an alt. account to defend yourself, Montcalm (or if you happen to be a friend).
Come on now.
1 post and join date: Jul 2012
Really now?

Fourth, I'm an American too. Doesn't matter.
No one's immune to criticism from any group, let alone their own national ones.

I was going to add onto hoplitejoe's point too: that perhaps Alexander the Great should be removed entirely.
Because you know, he sure loved himself some hot, sweaty men.
And that's totally not manly enough for Dawn of Civilization.

 

[Hippo8085]

Well put. Colors are fine as they are, along with leaders, units, Americans, so on.
End of this discussion. It got way out of hand.

 

[hoplitejoe]

I was going to add onto hoplitejoe's point too: that perhaps Alexander the Great should be removed entirely.
Because you know, he sure loved himself some hot, sweaty men.
And that's totally not manly enough for Dawn of Civilization.

Play it safe, remove the Greeks all together.

 

[civ_king]

Okay.

Let's break this down. Real talk.

The color first of all, is MAGENTA. Not Lavender. Not "Hot Pink". Magenta.

Second of all, he outright said that the color was feminine.
You even admit that yourself. Why then, if it's too "feminine" to represent the Vikings or the Polish, is it okay to represent China with?

Even if he digs himself out of the homophobia hole, he jumps right into the racist one.
So China suddenly becomes the land of half-men who wear pink and are totally "celestial", amirite?

Third of all, you don't have to jump on an alt. account to defend yourself, Montcalm (or if you happen to be a friend).
Come on now.
1 post and join date: Jul 2012
Really now?

Fourth, I'm an American too. Doesn't matter.
No one's immune to criticism from any group, let alone their own national ones.

I was going to add onto hoplitejoe's point too: that perhaps Alexander the Great should be removed entirely.
Because you know, he sure loved himself some hot, sweaty men.
And that's totally not manly enough for Dawn of Civilization.

What's wrong with him saying China is celestial, is it because faeries are celestial?


Yeah, we should remove a civ of pederasts

I don't know why he is like that and I'm American too.

 

[Solzhenitsyn]

Okay.

Let's break this down. Real talk.

The color first of all, is MAGENTA. Not Lavender. Not "Hot Pink". Magenta.

Second of all, he outright said that the color was feminine.
You even admit that yourself. Why then, if it's too "feminine" to represent the Vikings or the Polish, is it okay to represent China with?

Even if he digs himself out of the homophobia hole, he jumps right into the racist one.
So China suddenly becomes the land of half-men who wear pink and are totally "celestial", amirite?

Third of all, you don't have to jump on an alt. account to defend yourself, Montcalm (or if you happen to be a friend).
Come on now.
1 post and join date: Jul 2012
Really now?

Fourth, I'm an American too. Doesn't matter.
No one's immune to criticism from any group, let alone their own national ones.

I was going to add onto hoplitejoe's point too: that perhaps Alexander the Great should be removed entirely.
Because you know, he sure loved himself some hot, sweaty men.
And that's totally not manly enough for Dawn of Civilization.

1) I was talking about Norway could be a lavender.
2) You're getting to worked up about colors and you're defending yourself from something that wasn't even meant as an insult. You're making more of a stereotype by thinking of it as an insult.
3) No..... I'm not him, I just think you guys are jumping onto him for no bloody reason. I liked his ideas too, and didn't want the suggestion to die. He has a right to his opinion too, stop making the forums so hostile.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

2) You're getting to worked up about colors and you're defending yourself from something that wasn't even meant as an insult. You're making more of a stereotype by thinking of it as an insult.

OK, great logic there. When I call out someone for insinuating a well-known stereotype that they support by their own statement,
(Basic inference at work here: Guy says pink is too feminine for Vikings & Polish. Guy then says it's good for China. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what he's getting at.)
by your logic, that makes me the one guilty of reinforcing a stereotype?
So by that token, no one should ever say anything and we can pretend racism and outdated notions about certain peoples don't exist?
Let's just sweep everything under the rug, it'll all be alright, I'm guessing.
No need to own up to it.

Who's getting worked up about colors? No one has a problem with the Viking & Polish colors. It's just you and Montcalm.

3) No..... I'm not him, I just think you guys are jumping onto him for no bloody reason. I liked his ideas too, and didn't want the suggestion to die. He has a right to his opinion too, stop making the forums so hostile.

He certainly has a right to his opinion and he sure stated it, but again,
that doesn't make him immune to consequences of voicing his opinion.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

You can feel free to not like a color. I, for one, think the Khmer color is just ugly (and way too close to the Mughals, who they border), whether or not it is appropriate, and I'd like to see it changed. But when someone decides to base their argument in gender and racial politics, well, they sort of bring this kind of reaction onto themselves. I must, say, though, I am really happy to see everybody taking such a strident stand against this sort of subtle bias. I would imagine most of the posters here are straight men, and it's heartening to see that they understand and are willing to defend the positions of those who aren't one or the other.

 

[BenZL43]

I think the problem here is not about pink for Poland or lavender for Viking anymore but this is :

I know it distinguishes, but it's bloody pink for Poland! Poland isn't a pink country, China was okay for pink.

Now, tell me what's this sentence mean..
Please understand that there's also a lot of Chinese in this forum, like me, TD, Niceboat, etc.
There's also even Chinese version of DoC!

Please, keep this forum free from racism, be it for Asians, European, African, Australian or American.

He has a right to his opinion too, stop making the forums so hostile.

Off course he had. However, he should not be racist here. There will be no problem if he had said just like this :

I know it distinguishes, but it's bloody pink for Poland! Poland isn't a pink country.
, China was okay for pink.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

@Ben:

Caesar Augustus and hoplitejoe were just being sarcastic to prove a point.

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Pffft.

Type "Real Men Wear " into Google and see what hints come up.

Google knows.

 

[BenZL43]

@Ben:

Caesar Augustus and hoplitejoe were just being sarcastic to prove a point.

oops. Sorry, misunderstood.

 

[Leoreth]

Well, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he said pink is okay for China because he's used to it from Civ4 vanilla, and then tried to rationalize it.

Personally, I pay more attention to choosing the "right" color for every civ than what would be entirely justified, because I think it's part of the right feeling. Khmer and Mughals should be some shade of green in my opinion (for whatever subjective reason), and Holy Rome and Spain should be some sort of yellow. Poland is associated with red, but with two dark red civs nearby (Russia and Italy), and red England isn't that far off either. So the only shade of red that doesn't verge towards pink would've been a faint red similar to Korea's, and I don't think that would've looked more fitting for Poland.

So I chose the current color. It's called amaranth in the game files by the way. So it is not pink. And similar shades of colors are often used for Poland/Lithuania. Paradox games have been mentioned already.

I don't really care which cliches are associated with colors. I mean, we're all playing a game full of a rainbow of colors, so we're gay anyway

For the Vikings, I don't have any strong color association with them. I didn't have one for the Tamils either, but I knew they couldn't use shades of purple to get more contrast with India. The Vikings originally had light purple in BtS so I thought it wouldn't hurt to switch them around. It's not that noticeable next to the other European colors in my opinion anyway.

So you see, I did put some thought into the civ colors. Actually whenever I consider to add a new civ, I have to think for a long time how to give them a suitable color that isn't used by someone else already.

 

[BenZL43]

I don't really care which cliches are associated with colors. I mean, we're all playing a game full of a rainbow of colors, so we're gay anyway

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Please understand that there's also a lot of Chinese in this forum, like me, TD, Niceboat, etc.
There's also even Chinese version of DoC!

There are also gay men (hi!) and possibly women here as well, who would and should take offense regardless of his racial missteps. But anyway, I've had enough of this tempest in a teapot. Fun while it lasted