Current (SVN) development discussion thread

[The Diocletian]

When it says additional food during Golden Ages, does it mean tiles get +1 food or that cities get a static food bonus, like with the Cereal Corporation?

Also, I really like the new Argentine UP.

 

[Leoreth]

When it says additional food during Golden Ages, does it mean tiles get +1 food or that cities get a static food bonus, like with the Cereal Corporation?

No, it's per tile. It's an extension of the usual GA effect that gives +1 production and +1 commerce to tiles that produce at least one of these yields respectively.

Polish tiles also receive +1 food when it naturally produces 2 food already and another +1 commerce when it naturally produces at least 2 commerce.

Also, I really like the new Argentine UP.

Me too. When I originally thought of this effect, my initial reaction was "that would make for a good wonder effect, but I can't think of the right wonder". But it really is a natural fit for Argentina. Then I realized that it would make more sense to have them make use of this ability instead of settling generals, and that GAs are a more appropriate way to represent the inter-war wealth of Argentina anyway.

Also, the new UHV feels less forced and capital focused now, which always bothered me a bit. War is now a way to indirectly help with their goals but not a direct requirement.

 

[BenZL43]

Yes! I'll try to raze the whole world haha after my exam finished.. now that's an UP that sounds really interesting.

 

[Leoreth]

(The Mongols still have their old UP though.)

 

[BenZL43]

oops.
so... they kinda have 2 UP now?

 

[Leoreth]

It's not listed as a UP effect.

 

[ezzlar]

New Argentina UP is really cool! Nice idea!

But temporary food bonus for Poland, doesnt that just make a few good years followed by a bunch of famine years once the effect wears off?

If Mongols get to keep the first UP, why not a lesser raze penalty instead?

 

[Leoreth]

But temporary food bonus for Poland, doesnt that just make a few good years followed by a bunch of famine years once the effect wears off?

Sure, but with Slavery or Levy Armies you can make use of the additional food until the end of the GA.

If Mongols get to keep the first UP, why not a lesser raze penalty instead?

I don't understand this suggestion. The Mongols keep their previous UP, but are also exempt from the raze penalty. Just not as part of their UP.

 

[ezzlar]

Golden Age of population sacrifice? ;-) That commerce bonus seems more fit!

Regarding Mongols, I was thinking both effects might be a bit OP. Specially for the human player. So why not balance down the effect for the human player and give a smaller razing penalty instead of free razing?

Edit: Golden Age UP. +1 commerce per tile already generating commerce and +50% GP points?

 

[BenZL43]

Regarding Mongols, I was thinking both effects might be a bit OP. Specially for the human player. So why not balance down the effect for the human player and give a smaller razing penalty instead of free razing?

RT's quote is perfect for this situation:

Noooo

 

[Daedwartin]

Golden Age of population sacrifice? ;-) That commerce bonus seems more fit!

Regarding Mongols, I was thinking both effects might be a bit OP. Specially for the human player. So why not balance down the effect for the human player and give a smaller razing penalty instead of free razing?

Edit: Golden Age UP. +1 commerce per tile already generating commerce and +50% GP points?

Because the effect on stability for the Mongols when it comes to razing literaly doesnt make sense to apply.

The issue is that the mongols are if played true to their historical nature, would be trying to raze as many cities as physically possible. They hated cities. The only reason they toned down the amount was because someone had the bright idea to remind them that dead people pay less tribute than living people, and that means razing all cities greatly reduces your tribute. In fact, the AI probably should be made to raze a lot more cities as them.

 

[migck]

Memories keep coming... there seem to be a pair of events missing text keys, the one for resource depletion, like when elephants disappear from northern Africa, and the financial advisor's military stability section indicating losses to barbarians.
About the first one, maybe make a different text for western India's marshes, since those are not really resources you should miss, rather an opportunity for expansion opening up.

Also, last time I controlled the Sphinx, I noticed it didn't go obsolete with Drama, prophets could still create great works. Probably because the effects of some wonders are "fake", coded in the dll or python and not read from the XML, so going obsolete has to be handled there as well.

Huh, now I'm not sure if this should have gone here instead

 

[Leoreth]

Because the effect on stability for the Mongols when it comes to razing literaly doesnt make sense to apply.

The issue is that the mongols are if played true to their historical nature, would be trying to raze as many cities as physically possible. They hated cities. The only reason they toned down the amount was because someone had the bright idea to remind them that dead people pay less tribute than living people, and that means razing all cities greatly reduces your tribute. In fact, the AI probably should be made to raze a lot more cities as them.

Also, the UHV explicitly requires them to raze 7 cities so they have to be able to do that.

Memories keep coming... there seem to be a pair of events missing text keys, the one for resource depletion, like when elephants disappear from northern Africa, and the financial advisor's military stability section indicating losses to barbarians.
About the first one, maybe make a different text for western India's marshes, since those are not really resources you should miss, rather an opportunity for expansion opening up.

Noted.

Also, last time I controlled the Sphinx, I noticed it didn't go obsolete with Drama, prophets could still create great works. Probably because the effects of some wonders are "fake", coded in the dll or python and not read from the XML, so going obsolete has to be handled there as well.

You're completely right.

 

[youtien]

With Roman and Greek conqueror now, Egyptians should wipe them out early. 5000 culture can be achieved by slider.

 

[citis]

With Roman and Greek conqueror now, Egyptians should wipe them out early. 5000 culture can be achieved by slider.

It was intented to be achieved via three great prophets+the sphinx. If the difficulty is to be preserved the third goal should become "control the sphinx and establish three great prophets to your capital" (so that Jerusalem doesn't count).

Mongols:
The UP could be:

Power of distruction: No stability penatly from razing cities.

While their UU should have this attribute:
Keshik:
*3
*12:str:
*Keshik stacks spread terror to weaker cities
*50% withdraw chance (historically speaking, that was the main power of keshiks, they withdrew battles, weakened their enemy until they could conquer it)
(No caulateral damage, they are just stronger)

Terror should be connected to keshiks and not unique power, else it can be exploited in later eras.

 

[youtien]

It was intented to be achieved via three great prophets+the sphinx. If the difficulty is to be preserved the third goal should become "control the sphinx and establish three great prophets to your capital" (so that Jerusalem doesn't count).

Mongols:
The UP could be:

Power of distruction: No stability penatly from razing cities.

While their UU should have this attribute:
Keshik:
*3
*12:str:
*Keshik stacks spread terror to weaker cities
*50% withdraw chance (historically speaking, that was the main power of keshiks, they withdrew battles, weakened their enemy until they could conquer it)
(No caulateral damage, they are just stronger)

Terror should be connected to keshiks and not unique power, else it can be exploited in later eras.

If Egypt UHV got changed like this, I'll simply move my capital to Jerusalem.

Keshik will be OP with 12 str and that high chance. We can enable tactic promotion for them instead. I think the razing penalty should remain, for it is natural to resist and revenge if your people were massacred by invaders.

In any way, due to limits of AI, nobody can be real threat unless they're scripted to appear. But this is not a good way of game making.

 

[citis]

I think the razing penalty should remain, for it is natural to resist and revenge if your people were massacred by invaders.

Well, resistence is futile against the Mongols. AFAIK they were able to destroy any city they please without anyone be able to do anything.

 

[youtien]

Well, resistence is futile against the Mongols. AFAIK they were able to destroy any city they please without anyone be able to do anything.

Not true. Southern Song Dynasty stood against them for 45 years, that is, well, 5 turns.
But hey, Chinese revolted and respawned after only 8 turns, and Mongols were repelled back to their core.

 

[Leoreth]

It was intented to be achieved via three great prophets+the sphinx. If the difficulty is to be preserved the third goal should become "control the sphinx and establish three great prophets to your capital" (so that Jerusalem doesn't count).

No, that was just meant as an alternate way to reach that goal.

 

[Sanguivorant]

#BARCELONA
Barshiluna.

#TOLEDO
Tulaytulah

#MADRID
Mayra if controlled by Arabs. Matrit if controlled by Moors.

#CORDOBA
Qurtubah

#LISBON
Leshboona or Leshbuna.

#SANTIAGO
Santiagho based on the Arabic you have given me.

Though the name is based on Saint James. If that was the case, then the name of the city would be Syedna Ya'qoub.

#LA CORUNA
La Kurruniyyah.
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