Current v1.13 Development Discussion

[MechatronicJazz]

have to say the only time I was able to use my Samurai was against the Spanish in ~1500 when they tried to take Manila from me (idiots ). Having an independent or Barbarian settlement somewhere close would be nice. In my game I just stockpiled a dozen Samurai in my Capitol before I noticed that it is more efficient to build culture/gold.

I think invading Korea with a mix of Samurai and Muskets would be semi-historical. Their capital is often a nice addition, though I'm not sure how it would affect the first UHV. Anyway, that's an option. I do agree maybe one independent city in Japan could a nice addition.

 

[Chep]

the problem is that Korea has 2-3 cities. and I dont want the others, since I was afraid razing would cost me the UHV, I decided not to attack them.

This actually helped me because I was able to buy Drama (& HBR) from them when I researched Alphabet.


concerning city states: does it really mean "land" aka would it be a viable civic for Japan?

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

okay, thanks.
So far, so good:



(though this is 1570 already and only on Monarch - with 4 cities running 100% culture all the way from 1390 and all my cities had Castles since then)

Generating 5 GAs (4 in Kyoto, 1 in Edo) is the faster way. Each generates 3200 culture in renaissance. No need to use the culture slider.

 

[FinalLegendZero]

concerning city states: does it really mean "land" aka would it be a viable civic for Japan?

Yes, it means land. Worked water tiles don't count towards the limit.

 

[Chep]

cool, anyone tried whether or not it's worth it for Japan?


but more importantly:

Unstable AI civs don't collapse nearly often enough

I had AI China research Physics in the early 1600s in my game, they've been unstable for at least 500 years now, but don't collapse. Some civs collapse (Mongols, Vikings, France) but I some of the big ones are too stable and its affecting the whole game.

@bernd:
hm, that sounds interesting, "a tale of 2 cities" basically.
I still love expanding way too much, and since you start with 3 settlers disbanding one feels kinda like a betrayal but if I am to ever try it on Emperor/Paragon I'll give it a shot.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

I've used city states for Japan in a few games. It actually works pretty well, at least from a general gameplay standpoint. Again, I'm not entirely sure about the UHVs, but if using artists helps with that first UHV then I imagine it's a good strategy. I tend to use city states for more of the early game with Japan, and later on after I start expanding more I switch to mercantile or free market, depending on how late it is, what goal I'm playing for, etc. Note, I haven't tried using city states Japan on recent versions, so it might work differently now. I might give that a try now actually.

 

[MechatronicJazz]

I tend to use city states for more of the early game with Japan, and later on after I start expanding more I switch to mercantile or free market...

Just realized I was mixing civic categories there. Oops. But what I said about using city states before expanding still stands. Trying it out now and so far it seems to work pretty well.

 

[Leoreth]

okay, thanks.

make sure that "another player" includes the Independents to prevent liberate-cheese.

It does. The Japanese don't like cheese.

So far, so good:



(though this is 1570 already and only on Monarch - with 4 cities running 100% culture all the way from 1390 and all my cities had Castles since then)

Okay, that's nice. If you haven't become rusty at DoC during your break that probably means the challenge is reasonably high. I also like the discussion on different approaches for this goal, would be a shame if there was only one possible way.

have to say the only time I was able to use my Samurai was against the Spanish in ~1500 when they tried to take Manila from me (idiots ). Having an independent or Barbarian settlement somewhere close would be nice. In my game I just stockpiled a dozen Samurai in my Capitol before I noticed that it is more efficient to build culture/gold.

I think invading Korea with a mix of Samurai and Muskets would be semi-historical. Their capital is often a nice addition, though I'm not sure how it would affect the first UHV. Anyway, that's an option. I do agree maybe one independent city in Japan could a nice addition.

Yeah, war against Korea is the intent here. I think Hanseong is worth it, the rest can be razed. The experience gained there even synergizes with the secondary Himeji Castle effect.

Japanese civil war or internal conquest might be an idea for later on, if I get the chance to flesh out civil wars and rebellions in general.

concerning city states: does it really mean "land" aka would it be a viable civic for Japan?

Yes, only land tiles count.

 

[Novicenoble]

I found that razed city tile holds the territory and culture in latest svn games. I found a new city on adjacent tile but the razed city tile still remains as the foreign cultural territory. Is it intended?

 

[MechatronicJazz]

I can confirm that using city states works pretty well for Japan to get the first UHV, at least on regent. Also, Spain is doing amazingly in this version. They haven't come for Manila yet, but just early 1600s and they have pretty much the whole Caribbean coast, California, Nevada, Peru, and city in West Africa. They also circumnavigated the globe and founded Protestantism. 20 cities and fluctuating between shaky and stable. I don't think I've ever seen AI Spain do that well.

 

[Vectors]

It is 1912 in my 3000 BC Japan start, China still hasn't collapsed.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

@bernd:
hm, that sounds interesting, "a tale of 2 cities" basically.
I still love expanding way too much, and since you start with 3 settlers disbanding one feels kinda like a betrayal but if I am to ever try it on Emperor/Paragon I'll give it a shot.

You don't need to disband a settler. I founded Kyoto, Edo and Nagasaki. Edo and Nagasaki each need two GAs to get around 6000 Culture. Kyoto will produce around 3000-4000 culture while running 5 artists (and with castle and Himeji), so only one artist is needed here. I finished the first UHV around 1500 AD (on normal difficulty), so a six GA may be possible. I think even 4 cities may be possible with 6 GAs and a bit use of the culture slider.
Key is getting the opera house online as fast as possible (trade alphabet for drama with Korea very early in the game) and let Edo run 2 artists, too. Scholasticism is important as well.

 

[Tigranes]

May I ask you how does Japan start with her 1st UHV goal already achieved in 1700 scenario? Is it manually set on checked? Because starting cities do not have 6000

 

[Eric Cartmenez]

Although historical tiles in Polynesia for French and English, we do not have the correct city names when settling there (Chartres and Grenoble or Cambridge and Hastings), will this be adressed please?

 

[Leoreth]

May I ask you how does Japan start with her 1st UHV goal already achieved in 1700 scenario? Is it manually set on checked? Because starting cities do not have 6000

Yes. My rule of thumb was to make UHVs where two goals are still in the future achievable by setting the first to fulfilled. I didn't actually recreate the conditions for those goals in all cases (although for example wonders and settled specialists are usually there). For culture, it was more important that the relative culture between civs was balanced and the borders neat looking and realistic.

Although historical tiles in Polynesia for French and English, we do not have the correct city names when settling there (Chartres and Grenoble or Cambridge and Hastings), will this be adressed please?

Actually the CNM is probably the first thing I'll touch after release, so I think I can get that in there.

 

[Big Heb]

Yes. My rule of thumb was to make UHVs where two goals are still in the future achievable by setting the first to fulfilled. I didn't actually recreate the conditions for those goals in all cases (although for example wonders and settled specialists are usually there). For culture, it was more important that the relative culture between civs was balanced and the borders neat looking and realistic.


Actually the CNM is probably the first thing I'll touch after release, so I think I can get that in there.

On that note, it has bothered me for a while how drastically different the settlement map for Rome is versus the actual city placement in the 600 AD scenario. Technically, the settlement map is more accurate (Wien should be 1R, and Budapest 2R of current Wien; they honestly are too close IRL to be represented by two cities in game, but I recognize their inclusion for historical purpose). And when you settle where Singidunum would be in 600 AD, you get Naissus (modern day Nis), which is accurate but still bothersome when I try to recreate the 600 AD city placements when playing 3000 BC historically.

A possible solution is moving the spawns of Vindobona and Aquincum to be earlier, so Roman settlement doesn't prevent them from popping up, and adding Singidun as a Celtic spawn where it lies in 600 AD if Greece hasn't already settled Naissos.

Or is this only something that bothers me?

 

[Leoreth]

Nope, it bothered me even when I did it. Oh well, you can't have everything.

 

[Shadow Warlord]

With SVN 1000 i see Democracy now advances you to the industrial era. Is this intentional? Currently this means America will spawn in the Industrial era ahead of the rest of the world, which is wrong.

 

[Leoreth]

That's probably not optimal. Which I think means that America might start without Democracy? (gasp!)

 

[Shadow Warlord]

That's probably not optimal. Which I think means that America might start without Democracy? (gasp!)

But why does Democracy advance to the Industrial Era in the first place? I don't understand the change. (Though, since the two things associated with the tech come further down the line, it'd make more sense to have the tech moved forward in the tree).