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Bede said:
BTW, I had already looked at the above posts. Did you know that your "SO" made it seem like you were ranting Bede? That's very grumpy.
Good luck on the evaluating. And don't be so mean! 
D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day
- Thread starter D'Artagnan59
- Start date
BTW, I had already looked at the above posts. Did you know that your "SO" made it seem like you were ranting Bede? That's very grumpy.
Good luck on the evaluating. And don't be so mean! 
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Not Sarcastic
Well... poop. Err, I remember that now. It's just that convention was 10 turns....
Alright. I'll finish the rest!
Edited. Look back if you've already read the old post.
Alright. I'll finish the rest!
Edited. Look back if you've already read the old post.
I am going to put in a plea that we drop to ten turns from here on out. Twenty turns will force way too many decisions on the turn player as we spam out settlers. Will look at the save in a bit and post comments.
@Tribute, that was just me clearing my throat, wait until I get into full voice. You ever heard thirty couple of American foxhounds hit a breast high scent on a fine and frosty morning in November?
@Tribute, that was just me clearing my throat, wait until I get into full voice. You ever heard thirty couple of American foxhounds hit a breast high scent on a fine and frosty morning in November?
WTH??????Bede said:@Tribute, that was just me clearing my throat, wait until I get into full voice. You ever heard thirty couple of American foxhounds hit a breast high scent on a fine and frosty morning in November?
What does that have to do with anything? ![[offtopic]](/images/smilies/offtopic.gif "Offtopic [offtopic]")
You are right we won't see 20 cities in 60 turns unless someone gets very very creative, how many cities do you all think we can get?
The military we do have should be sent to cover the new city sites
I've got some ideas
but I would rather have yours.....
And who can tell me what is wrong with this picture?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/D'Artagnan_of_the_French,_2150_BC.SAV
Conquerdude-Up
CommandoBob-On Deck
The military we do have should be sent to cover the new city sites
I've got some ideas
but I would rather have yours.....
And who can tell me what is wrong with this picture?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/D'Artagnan_of_the_French,_2150_BC.SAV
Conquerdude-Up
CommandoBob-On Deck
Tribute
Not Sarcastic
Aside from bad graphics, I'd say the workers should be at Orleans? We are also losing gpt. But that's fine as long as we don't lose it all, right? Oh, wait, those're my fault....
I agree on the red dot. The only other place would be 1 NW but that's crowding and wastes possible coastal tiles. The only downside is that the only 2 food tiles that produce 2 food (bonus grass and fish). But of course, that is not TOO bad with our worker crews.
The yellow dot isn't that good, but there is nowhere else to place it! It can connect and be surrounded by Orleans, a coastal city on the forest next to the river, a coastal SW most city next to the sugar, and 1 more 2W and 2SW of Paris. No tiles would be wasted and minimal overlap is created. Decent growth and production for the first few turns would exist.
I'd plan on having 1 more city south of Paris 2S and 1SW as well as 1 more on the SE front, possibly 2 if we like ICSin'. We need the silks; 4N of Paris is nice. A city there could grow with Orleans's grassland. I guess a dotmap would help more, wouldn't it? It would most definitely save me time explaining.
I agree on the red dot. The only other place would be 1 NW but that's crowding and wastes possible coastal tiles. The only downside is that the only 2 food tiles that produce 2 food (bonus grass and fish). But of course, that is not TOO bad with our worker crews.
The yellow dot isn't that good, but there is nowhere else to place it! It can connect and be surrounded by Orleans, a coastal city on the forest next to the river, a coastal SW most city next to the sugar, and 1 more 2W and 2SW of Paris. No tiles would be wasted and minimal overlap is created. Decent growth and production for the first few turns would exist.
I'd plan on having 1 more city south of Paris 2S and 1SW as well as 1 more on the SE front, possibly 2 if we like ICSin'. We need the silks; 4N of Paris is nice. A city there could grow with Orleans's grassland. I guess a dotmap would help more, wouldn't it? It would most definitely save me time explaining.
Red Dot secures us a port city along with the commerce from the gold and forests for chops to help with builds.
Yellow Dot give us another commerce city as it is on the river and a slight chance of having iron in the city radius on the hill to the south.
Besides the bad graphics, at least one worker should be on the sugar tile improving it.
My attempt at a city placement map.
Yellow Dot give us another commerce city as it is on the river and a slight chance of having iron in the city radius on the hill to the south.
Besides the bad graphics, at least one worker should be on the sugar tile improving it.
My attempt at a city placement map.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: Choxorn, Bede has a wonderful and witty sense of humor...just ONE of the delightful things about being trained by him (he trained me too). I'd say it was a hint preparing you guys for why he's called Grumpy. Just wait until he gets info full rant mode, and you'll understand about the hounds.choxorn said:WTH??????
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Bede said:You are right we won't see 20 cities in 60 turns unless someone gets very very creative, how many cities do you all think we can get?
The military we do have should be sent to cover the new city sites
I've got some ideas
but I would rather have yours.....
And who can tell me what is wrong with this picture?
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/D'Artagnan_of_the_French,_2150_BC.SAV
Conquerdude-Up
CommandoBob-On Deck
The wheat is mined when it should have been irrigated. And maybe the workers should be in a gang since more tiles are currently being improved than we have citizens to work.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
@ Bucephalus: That is probably it
clap, one of Bede's rules(TM), i think, its you shouldnt mine food bonuses.
Either that or the bad graphics.
@ Bahzell: I like your dotmap.
clap, one of Bede's rules(TM), i think, its you shouldnt mine food bonuses. Either that or the bad graphics. @ Bahzell: I like your dotmap.
B's dot map is practical and useful.
No one has yet nailed the biggest in the picture. The worker north of Paris is putting a road down on a field we won't get to use until after the Jacobins send tumbrils through the streets.
I thought long and hard about the mine on the wheat and decided that move was "OK" if we are going to build a granary. The stronger move since we don't have a granary would have been to irrigate the riverside and the wheat. Probably the same number of worker turns and we would have had +6 food at Paris at pop2. And then +8 at pop3 if I am doing the sums right. Shields are not the limiter when it comes to spawning settlers - food is. So any time you can have extra food go for it. And then use the whip to pick up the last twenty shields.
Ganging industrious French workers would be an insult to the French workingman and we just might have them burning cars on the boulevards. Not really needed as then they would be improving fields before they could be worked. The best plan is to have a field ready for working just as the citizen is born to work there. Tree chopping sometimes means worker gangs if you want to get the timing right, however.
The weakest move of all however is not having a warrior standing on a hill near the two planned city locations. Barbarians before the uprising only come from busting camps, and camps only appear when you don't have a view of the terrain. IIRC barbarians don't spawn themselves until the "Change of Era" uprisings and don't spawn inside cultural borders or within sight.
That first camp was just bad luck and would have made trouble no matter how it was handled. Any other barb problems have been as result of our moves, however.
No one has yet nailed the biggest
in the picture. The worker north of Paris is putting a road down on a field we won't get to use until after the Jacobins send tumbrils through the streets.I thought long and hard about the mine on the wheat and decided that move was "OK" if we are going to build a granary. The stronger move since we don't have a granary would have been to irrigate the riverside and the wheat. Probably the same number of worker turns and we would have had +6 food at Paris at pop2. And then +8 at pop3 if I am doing the sums right. Shields are not the limiter when it comes to spawning settlers - food is. So any time you can have extra food go for it. And then use the whip to pick up the last twenty shields.
Ganging industrious French workers would be an insult to the French workingman and we just might have them burning cars on the boulevards. Not really needed as then they would be improving fields before they could be worked. The best plan is to have a field ready for working just as the citizen is born to work there. Tree chopping sometimes means worker gangs if you want to get the timing right, however.
The weakest move of all however is not having a warrior standing on a hill near the two planned city locations. Barbarians before the uprising only come from busting camps, and camps only appear when you don't have a view of the terrain. IIRC barbarians don't spawn themselves until the "Change of Era" uprisings and don't spawn inside cultural borders or within sight.
That first camp was just bad luck and would have made trouble no matter how it was handled. Any other barb problems have been as result of our moves, however.
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Bucephalus said:
Oh no, that is untrue. The wheat SHOULD be mined. We will have a total of 5 fpt. 6fpt is useless unless we need to use a forest. But we don't. We have plenty of mined bg.
lurker's comment: Sorry to break in, but I fiercely disagree with Bede's suggestion here:
Red dot is a bad location. It should be on top of the gold hill. Why? Cities on commerce-tiles do not lose any commerce in Despotism. Cities that use commerce tiles, but are not build on them do suffer from the Despo-penalty. And the strategical advantage red dot might have over gold-hill is non-existing (as I can judge from the picture).
Bede is a great teacher, but has some weak points (his strong points outweigh them by a lot). One of them is city-locations.... But we love him just the same
Red dot is a bad location. It should be on top of the gold hill. Why? Cities on commerce-tiles do not lose any commerce in Despotism. Cities that use commerce tiles, but are not build on them do suffer from the Despo-penalty. And the strategical advantage red dot might have over gold-hill is non-existing (as I can judge from the picture).
Bede is a great teacher, but has some weak points (his strong points outweigh them by a lot). One of them is city-locations.... But we love him just the same
SimpleMonkey
King
lurker's comment: From this monkey's POV, the current red dot is good in the long-term, and Rik's suggestion is better for the short-term, when every coin counts. Hmm, maybe that does make a significant difference at this stage of the game after all.
Since this isn't an Always War game, placing that city on a hill for the defensive bonus isn't crucial. Figure that if you have an enemy attacking that far into your core, you have more problems than hill placement can fix. Further out from the core and in a more aggressive game, on the other hand, hills are a major plus.
Since this isn't an Always War game, placing that city on a hill for the defensive bonus isn't crucial. Figure that if you have an enemy attacking that far into your core, you have more problems than hill placement can fix. Further out from the core and in a more aggressive game, on the other hand, hills are a major plus.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Bede's dotmap
Both Red and Yellow give us good growth for a long time, up to size 12. No aqueduct to build or maintain. (
Way to go CB, state the obvious!)
Red should be built first because it needs only tile to be roaded in order to connected. That tile is a forest, which means either build the city first and chop the forest for the first build and then road it OR just road it as is. Yellow is two tiles away from being connected.
Once connected, both Red and Yellow are two turns away from Paris and Orleans (assuming that the tile north of Paris will be roaded). Paris to Red, N across a river, walk three. Orleans to Yellow, S across a river, walk two. Paris to Yellow, walk six. Orleans to Red, S across a river, walk three.
(I should state here that I prefer to road first, then otherwise improve. Not making a my-way vs. other-way statement, just want to inform of how my mind works.)
Bahzell's dotmap
The best position, to me, on Bahzell's dotmap is the lighter green dot NW of Orleans. The reason: it sits on a choke-point and can protect us from unwanted incursons from the north. Actually, one tile NE would be better. Still a good choke point for defense and a canal city between two large bodies of water. Don't have the game open (at work at lunch), so I can't really tell if the canal city would work there, but looks like it should.
I also like blue dot SE of Paris. Again, it is chokepoint, but for a much smaller section of land. But that land would be ours.
The pink dot to west of Paris could be a good chokepoint, but looks to be just a coastal city.
Both Red and Yellow give us good growth for a long time, up to size 12. No aqueduct to build or maintain. (
Way to go CB, state the obvious!)Red should be built first because it needs only tile to be roaded in order to connected. That tile is a forest, which means either build the city first and chop the forest for the first build and then road it OR just road it as is. Yellow is two tiles away from being connected.
Once connected, both Red and Yellow are two turns away from Paris and Orleans (assuming that the tile north of Paris will be roaded). Paris to Red, N across a river, walk three. Orleans to Yellow, S across a river, walk two. Paris to Yellow, walk six. Orleans to Red, S across a river, walk three.
(I should state here that I prefer to road first, then otherwise improve. Not making a my-way vs. other-way statement, just want to inform of how my mind works.)
Bahzell's dotmap
The best position, to me, on Bahzell's dotmap is the lighter green dot NW of Orleans. The reason: it sits on a choke-point and can protect us from unwanted incursons from the north. Actually, one tile NE would be better. Still a good choke point for defense and a canal city between two large bodies of water. Don't have the game open (at work at lunch), so I can't really tell if the canal city would work there, but looks like it should.
I also like blue dot SE of Paris. Again, it is chokepoint, but for a much smaller section of land. But that land would be ours.
The pink dot to west of Paris could be a good chokepoint, but looks to be just a coastal city.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Commando Bob: No, the canal does not work, the passageway is too thick, its only one tile too big...
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I don't really like all the spots on the dotmap. I like spread out and condensed with absolutely no tile loss. Perfectionist! That would be a great succession game type....
I guess I could make my own dotmap. But I feel too lazy. And shouldn't they be hollow, numbered squares rotated 45 degrees on a grid map? It seems easier to understand that way.
I guess I could make my own dotmap. But I feel too lazy. And shouldn't they be hollow, numbered squares rotated 45 degrees on a grid map? It seems easier to understand that way.
Rik is right. And I had forgotten the Commercial trait which will give the production bonus of a mine when the town gets past seven. So I would indeed plant the town on the gold.
In either case the town has the potential to be a commerce generating monster. With the gold and coast for commerce with the proper buildings we could see in excess of 100 beakers per turn from just that one town.
And the Frog Prince is right, too. I looked long and hard at that area before realizing it is neither a choke or a canal. That's another reason why it is a good thing to play with grids on so you can see those kinds of things.
@conquerdude, be careful when you open the game and go find the purple warrior in the far north before he boogies out of sight on the interturn.
We may not get to Writing in your set but if we do we need to have a plan for the next steps.
What is the next research choice?
And, since we may have an opportunity for trade, do we? And if so for what?
I will ask that whoever gets the chance to make the first trade, please save the game when you discover the opportunity and post it to the forum. And let's do that on subsequent oppportunities as well. Then go ahead and do whatever deal you think meets the objective we have set and finish the set.
That will allow everybody look at the opportunity and we can discuss whether or not the best use was made of it by trying different approaches.....
And, lastly, a big
to The Meleet. You all need to know that Rik is one of the most thoughtful lurkers on the forum. I have personally learned a great deal from his insights into how the game plays. Frankly I consider it an honor to have his Orca gracing these pages. He is a lot like EF Hutton, for when The Meleet speaks everybody listens, or should!
In either case the town has the potential to be a commerce generating monster. With the gold and coast for commerce with the proper buildings we could see in excess of 100 beakers per turn from just that one town.
And the Frog Prince is right, too. I looked long and hard at that area before realizing it is neither a choke or a canal. That's another reason why it is a good thing to play with grids on so you can see those kinds of things.
@conquerdude, be careful when you open the game and go find the purple warrior in the far north before he boogies out of sight on the interturn.
We may not get to Writing in your set but if we do we need to have a plan for the next steps.
What is the next research choice?
And, since we may have an opportunity for trade, do we? And if so for what?
I will ask that whoever gets the chance to make the first trade, please save the game when you discover the opportunity and post it to the forum. And let's do that on subsequent oppportunities as well. Then go ahead and do whatever deal you think meets the objective we have set and finish the set.
That will allow everybody look at the opportunity and we can discuss whether or not the best use was made of it by trying different approaches.....
And, lastly, a big
to The Meleet. You all need to know that Rik is one of the most thoughtful lurkers on the forum. I have personally learned a great deal from his insights into how the game plays. Frankly I consider it an honor to have his Orca gracing these pages. He is a lot like EF Hutton, for when The Meleet speaks everybody listens, or should!
conquer_dude
Imperial Slave
Alright so, I've got the save, and if I finish writing, what next? I'll wait til I get a reply here until I play. And, why do you want to find the purple warrior before he boogies off? To find out which civ it is?
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