D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: Sorry to break in, but I fiercely disagree with Bede's suggestion here:

Red dot is a bad location. It should be on top of the gold hill. Why? Cities on commerce-tiles do not lose any commerce in Despotism. Cities that use commerce tiles, but are not build on them do suffer from the Despo-penalty. And the strategical advantage red dot might have over gold-hill is non-existing (as I can judge from the picture).

Bede is a great teacher, but has some weak points (his strong points outweigh them by a lot). One of them is city-locations.... But we love him just the same

Commerce: You won't be in Despo for long.

 

[conquer_dude]

Not until we get republic, which could be a while, and for that while, or people could be happy with good wealth.

 

[choxorn]

Or you could steal it from in AI...

 

[Bede]

@c-d, making new friends is always a good idea. They might have something you could use.

The decision on what to research after Writing is a big one. It also has great value as trade bait and needs to be used wisely.

Now here's my dilemma: I could make a pronouncement that we must research X or Y, but that would defeat my purpose. The team should reach a consensus based on a discussion of the options.

What are the factors to consider?

1) Victory condition: Space or Military?
2) Economics: can we afford to research an expensive tech (and does everybody know how to figure tech costs and the factors that go into that?)
3) Do we stand a chance at the Republic gambit? (researching Code of Laws next, then Philosophy and taking Republic as the bonus)
4) If we don't think we can win to Republic do we want to push ahead on Philosophy now and choose something else as the bonus (Philosphy is one of the cheaper techs on the market BTW), if so what?
5) Are there any other choices that will get us closer to the objective?

That is just a sample of the kind of decision making that separates the sheep from the goats.

 

[Tribute]

I've always hated military victories. It always seem that it's one leader, and the game is over. It will be won. I guess either space or diplomatic would be appropriate. But of course, selling techs to the AI at high prices might be exploited.

I'm not really sure how to calculate tech costs, but I'm sure civ assist II and the other utilities can for C3C.

The Republic gambit will most likely fail. With such a slow start, it is unlikely the commerce generated will be enough. After all, the AI normally has been able to get philosophy before me whenever I try it. So let's just get Philosophy and take something else for free.

We could choose one of our two cities (preferably Orleans) to only build military. This allows for less probable AI attacks, safety from barbarians, and a high unit upkeep cost, um rather, a bunch of MP units.

 

[Ansar]

I recommend going for Philosophy, since we went directly for writing... We should be able to get Phil, with ease...right?

If I may, I have never done military and would sure like to know...

I am very pacifist, and I want to be warmongering for once, but in the Modern Age, where there are Modern Armor, and nukes

 

[Bede]

But if we get Philosophy what do we do with it? There is only one meaningful choice at the moment.

 

[Rik Meleet]

And, lastly, a big to The Meleet. You all need to know that Rik is one of the most thoughtful lurkers on the forum. I have personally learned a great deal from his insights into how the game plays. Frankly I consider it an honor to have his Orca gracing these pages. He is a lot like EF Hutton, for when The Meleet speaks everybody listens, or should!

Oh come on ...
I'd like to state that we have learned from eachother (and others). We balanced out eachother's weak points and learned from each other's strong points. It's not correct to compare me to EF Hutton (I had to google to know what that meant)

to the Magnificent Grumpy old monk who has recorderd SID - level victories while the tiny Orca has none.

 

[vmxa]

I'm not really sure how to calculate tech costs, but I'm sure civ assist II and the other utilities can for C3C.

You can DL a tool such as TechCalc or do it manually. The eidtor has the values for the cost factor for the level and the raw cost for the tech and the cost factor for the map size.

So BW is 3 at Regent and 240 is the facotr on std maps = 720. The level is 10 so it is 72 beakers for BW. Alphabet woudl be 5, so 5x240 = 1200/10 means 120 beakers. If it was Sid teh facotr is 4 and BW wold be 180 beakers.

 

[CommandoBob]

This was done quickly, hope it makes sense.

1) Victory condition: Space or Military?

While the steps may differ, the road to Space will be the same as Military for some time. I suggest we combine them; aim for semi-Domination Victory (my term, just made up; mean at least 50% of the land be Frenchie, but less than 67%) and once we get to that point focus on leaving the planet.

2) Economics: can we afford to research an expensive tech (and does everybody know how to figure tech costs and the factors that go into that?)

I don't know enough to offer an opinion.

3) Do we stand a chance at the Republic gambit? (researching Code of Laws next, then Philosophy and taking Republic as the bonus)

At Emperor, when the AI gets a break on the beaker cost? Doubtful, but to really answer the question I would need to dig into the starting techs of our soon to be neighbors, which I cannot do from work.

4) If we don't think we can win to Republic do we want to push ahead on Philosophy now and choose something else as the bonus (Philosphy is one of the cheaper techs on the market BTW), if so what?

What an interesting idea. Iron Working, perhaps, leading to Construction? And pointy-stick diplomacy?

5) Are there any other choices that will get us closer to the objective?

And the objecitve is? (And I hope I haven't missed it!)

 

[Tribute]

I think the next one can play now.

I want progress, not just planning!

 

[CommandoBob]

I think the next one can play now.

I want progress, not just planning!

Progress without planning is just wandering.

We need to discuss what to research after Writing. I don't have the Ancient Times tech order memorized, so I am not even sure what options we have to research at the present time.

Besides, not everyone has replied yet.

And lest we be bedazzled by Bede (five posts back), Philosophy is not the only tech we can research. The best, perhaps, but not the only.

 

[conquer_dude]

I'm going to play tonight. I will research philo I guess.

 

[Ansar]

Well, as an emperor game, its either Philosophy now or never, and a free tech away from the AI is the main goal, IMO.

 

[Bede]

Anxiously awaiting a report.

And just to keep the record clear, I did not recommend any technology. There is one other choice, Literature, that should be considered.

I do disagree that Space and Domination victories have anything at all in common, unless we want to play a GOTM style game. In those games you need land and population in addition to the production and research to finish a Space Ship in order to garner a high score. So the style of play focuses on a rapid build up of military in order to dominate the map. My personal style is a little different. Military serves the Space Ship by acquiring resources, not land and population. It also acts as a deterrent against AI war declarations when the time comes for espionage.

To prove the point, take a look at the last game in the TR series. That was a Deity 5 city space victory with a respectable launch date.

YOu can look it up

And I have an entry in the Hall of Fame that was a top ten SS launch at Emperor, and if I recall correctly all but one opponent was still around at the end of the game. (It was a while ago)

All I'm really getting at here is all options have to be carefully considered.

 

[conquer_dude]

True. Literature = libraries.

I will play for sure after I eat.

 

[gmaharriet]

I do disagree that Space and Domination victories have anything at all in common, unless we want to play a GOTM style game. In those games you need land and population in addition to the production and research to finish a Space Ship in order to garner a high score. So the style of play focuses on a rapid build up of military in order to dominate the map. My personal style is a little different. Military serves the Space Ship by acquiring resources, not land and population. It also acts as a deterrent against AI war declarations when the time comes for espionage.

lurker's comment: Just adding my $.02. I've been lead by Bede in two SS games. I had been an extreme builder, expecting to have my little 10 or 15 peaceful cities build an SS, never firing a shot at anyone. What I learned was what Bede just stated...ya gotta fight to acquire resources...otherwise you may get your ship half built and find you have no uranium (or whatever), and by then it's very hard to build up your military to go take it.

So, just to that extent, there are a few similarities between Space and Domination. Most players do more warmongering than I used to, so you may not need the same lessons I did. Thanks, Bede!

 

[choxorn]

The Republic gambit will most likely fail. With such a slow start, it is unlikely the commerce generated will be enough. After all, the AI normally has been able to get philosophy before me whenever I try it. So let's just get Philosophy and take something else for free.

You can choose your Philosophy free tech?

@Commando:
France is Commercial/Industrious. That means they start with Alphabet and Masonry. If you guys are researching writing and it's the only tech you've researched, You'll have the following techs available IIRC:

1.Bronze Working
2.Mathematics
3.Wheel
4.Warrior Code
5.Ceremonial Burial
6.Pottery
7.Map Making
8.Philosophy
9.Code of Laws
10.Literature

 

[Tribute]

You can choose your Philosophy free tech?

Yeah! You really do get to choose. It's so helpful at times....

And maybe if we trade well, we'll have more options than just those 10 techs. We'll see.

I hope conquerdude does not fail to consume edible materials!

 

[choxorn]

You will have those options if you don't get any new techs by the time you finish writing.