D'Artagnan01: Low-level Training Day

[Bucephalus]

RPs. *prays for lots of Rubber*

I've just traded for Nationalism, so Infantry is no longer so important.

 

[Bede]

Scientific Method is the tech of choice in this instance with prebuilds for both ToE and Hoover's. Have we got any factories up?

Do you have a customer for Communism? If not I wouldn't take Hiawatha's deal for Industrialization. We have lots of big buck opportunities coming up if we can make it to ToE, Atomic Theory and Electronics so I wouldn't worry about leaving money on the table and letting some of our previous extortionate deals expire will provide even more opportunity.

 

[Bucephalus]

Have we got any factories up?

I haven't got the game open, so I can't say; however, I will attend to it, so that we have a couple of pre-builds in place.

Do you have a customer for Communism?

No, it's known by everyone who matters.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

You don't wanna see me when I get rubber-low. I need rubber.

Infantries...
RUBBER! RUBER! RUBBER RUBBER! RUBBER!

Sorry, that is what happens when I need rubber.

 

[Tribute]

It's okay, D'art. They'll get replaceable parts when they need faster workers (which is when they realize that they need to build railroads).

Oh, wait. I'm not lurking. Er...

I suggest we get RP while building ToE so that we can speed rail our land. And then we can speed irrigate the places that need it. And speed mine the factory hotspots.

Ooh! Ooh! And don't forget speed cleaning pollution.

 

[Bucephalus]

Pre-turn: Abe gives Nationalism & 13gpt for Steam; Hiawatha gives 109gpt, 59g for Steam.
Change builds in nearly every city: Paris, Orleans, Rheims, Tours, and Avignon begin Factories; Bescanon begins Rifleman; Rennes changed to Aqueduct, we’ll be able to irrigate those two wheat once we have Electricity, to make a nice specialist farm.. We badly need workers, as we will have coal soon, so workers to be creamed off some of the less productive Northern cities. All current worker jobs halted; one worker asleep in Cherbourg, woken and sent to road Iroquois coal. Naturally it’s the source furthest from us, and it’s on a mountain. Cities mm for optimum performance.
Six Musketeers upgraded for defence of the two Northern cities within reach of Hiawatha. We don’t want to risk a premature GA either, but I’ve kept back a couple in the core, just in case we miss out on Hoover.
Settler woken and sent to island at SE corner, there is a space there which we can exploit now we can irrigate.
Disband a couple of regular pikes.

…..and Enter:

1060 AD: Mousqueton, Bordeaux, and Strasbourg all complete workers. Workers despatched to road coal.

IBT: America makes peace with Scandinavia.

1070 AD: Give Inca Economics for Spices; drop lux rate to 10%; Short rush in Paris, factory due in 4.

IBT: America and England sign a MPP.

1080 AD: Workers in Rennes begin to chop forest planted on wheat. First of our workers reaches coal, confirms no Iroquois workers roading it. Make peace with Scandinavia, for buttons.

IBT: deal for 159gpt from America ends.

1090 AD: Bescanon finishes Rifle, begins another. Short-rush factory at Orleans, due in 5.

Now Abe also has some cash, I decide to trade Industrialization:
Abe gave 188 gpt + loose change.
Hiawatha chipped in with 75 gpt.


IBT: Trade WM with Hiawatha

1100 AD: At Lyon, this happened –

Our first worker begins to road Iroquois coal.
Marseilles begins factory.
Lyon begins factory.
Carne founded on island, begins worker.
Drop back science slider; Electricity in 2, 346 gpt coming in.


IBT: Nada.

1120: Paris finishes factory. Begins US as a prebuild for T of E.
@Rennes, workers finish forest chop on wheat. Can’t irrigate for 1 turn, so begin another chop towards Mkt. Citizen to wheat, growth in 1.
Second worker begins to road coal.

IBT: Nada

1130: We have Electricity, begin research on Med. (5)

IBT: Iroquois coal connected. Deals for Spices and Ivory expire.

1140 AD:
Trade an arm and a leg for coal from Hiawatha.

Trade Magnetism to Inca for Spices.
Trade Steam for Ivory + 19 gpt from Lizzie.
Drop Science back, still Med. in 3.
Workers begin to railroad our cities together.
Orleans completes factory. Begin Palace as pre-build.


IBT: Nada.

.
1050 AD: Nothing but worker moves.

I’m forced to hold up my hand, and confess to an error of judgement here. I was too focused on getting Abe’s gpt back, that I failed to realise that trading Industrialization would allow them (and Iroquois) to switch wonder builds from Smith’s to USuff.
I only needed to wait one turn, now Paris may be building a very expensive something-or-other. Sorry, Guys.
We will have Medicine in 2 turns, SciMethod in 5 or 6 after that, so I could get lucky.

Rant away, Bede.


....and the save:http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/38078/D_Artagnan_of_the_French_1150_AD.SAV

 

[Tribute]

About 7 turns more right? And US takes 1000 shields to build right?
That's a 400 difference, so we should be okay.

 

[Bucephalus]

About 7 turns more right? And US takes 1000 shields to build right?
That's a 400 difference, so we should be okay.

Thanks, Tribute. I hope so.

 

[Bede]

I wouldn't fret the Industrialization deal - you have options. There are 120 shields in the bin at Paris, you can switch to a coal plant at no loss for the next two turns. Or an even more interesting possibility is to trade for Free Artistry and use Shakespeare's Theatre to prebuild the ToE. Or you can spend some cash and investigate Washington and St Regis.

There is a sleeping worker in Paris!!!!

Now on to the railroad building

I would not have built a milnet, instead concentrated on getting the high shield fields at Paris and Orleans and Lyons railed up. And I don't really understand the worker distribution. The eighteen workers at home divide into six gangs of three (or is it nine gangs of two) for one turn rails on flatland. Put in the right places that's six or nine shiny new shields every turn.

There is too much cash in the treasury and science spending should be at least 90%. Spend it down to finish rush the factories and the like.

Some principles on rails - adds one food or one shield depending on whether or not the field is irrigated or mined. So every irrigated field railed sold be balanced by a newly mined field to keep the food/shields in balance. That's why I like t have big gangs of workers in core towns so that those things can be taken care of quickly. With Industrious Workers that should not be a problem.

So it is up to the next guy to solve the prebuild problem.....

Overall we are making good progress to our goal. But we need to stay focused on the economics, tech costs take another big jump soon and we need the cash flow cushion to overcome that leap.

 

[CommandoBob]

To the best of my knowledge:

• D'Artagnan59
• Tribute - just played
• CommandoBob - UP
• Bucephalus - on deck

Tonight is busy for me, I'll see if I can a preflight done over the weekend.

I like ganging workers. But I'm unclear on the food/mining balance. I think what you mean is to make sure that zero growth cities stay at zero growth after the rails are put in. Right?

When I rail my I rate the tiles this way:

• Connect the cities (beats all).
• Rail for shields before railing for food.

Ganging workers makes a lot of sense because with six workers in three turns I can rail six flatland tiles. Railing in a gang means that on turn 1 I rail one tile AND get an extra shield from that tile on the IBT. Gang railing the second tile pulls in another shield on that tile on the IBT, plus a shield from the first tile. Gang railing the third tile again brings in more shields.
Putting the six workers on three tiles for three turns also rails the three tiles, for 3 extra shields after three turns. Gang railing gets 3 extra shields in two turns, netting 6 extra shields in three turns.
(That is, if my math is correct).

 

[Bede]

To the best of my knowledge:

• D'Artagnan59
• Tribute - just played
• CommandoBob - UP
• Bucephalus - on deck

Tonight is busy for me, I'll see if I can a preflight done over the weekend.

I like ganging workers. But I'm unclear on the food/mining balance. I think what you mean is to make sure that zero growth cities stay at zero growth after the rails are put in. Right?

When I rail my I rate the tiles this way:

• Connect the cities (beats all).
• Rail for shields before railing for food.

Ganging workers makes a lot of sense because with six workers in three turns I can rail six flatland tiles. Railing in a gang means that on turn 1 I rail one tile AND get an extra shield from that tile on the IBT. Gang railing the second tile pulls in another shield on that tile on the IBT, plus a shield from the first tile. Gang railing the third tile again brings in more shields.
Putting the six workers on three tiles for three turns also rails the three tiles, for 3 extra shields after three turns. Gang railing gets 3 extra shields in two turns, netting 6 extra shields in three turns.
(That is, if my math is correct).

Actually it was Bucephalus who just played. And since we have a weekend on our hands it goes to Tribute with CommanderB on deck.

You are exactly right about the ganged workers, although I ahve never done the math to the extent you have. It just feels right to do that way.

The food/shields balance is exactly as you put it - no more food than needed by a population of twelve, unless for some reason we go for Sanitation and start building hospitals. I would advise against that course as we will then be trading shields for food and we need all the shields we can get. Having the extra population helps when you need to use specialists like cops, but in this case I don't think we need them. Our core is reasonably corruption and waste free and unless we go into conquering mode and get way past the optimal city number the extra population just isn't needed.

 

[CommandoBob]

Actually it was Bucephalus who just played. And since we have a weekend on our hands it goes to Tribute with CommanderB on deck.

Oops!

• D'Artagnan59
• Bucephalus - just played
• Tribute - UP
• CommandoBob - on deck
• Bucephalus (?)

 

[Tribute]

Alrighty then. I'll get the save. And I have it. So on with the show....

Edit 1: Why? Why? Why?! Civ III doesn't work when I load the save! It says that MusketeerFortify.flc isn't there! But it is! I checked! However, I can still load other files and still play civ. Just not the file. Maybe the file is bad? Or is it my computer?

Will try a restart and then complain later if it fails.

Edit 2: I did the restart and found something very interesting. The error message reads that "Musketeer/MusketterFortify.flc" is missing. That's "musketter" not "musketeer" Something is wrong.... (And it's not my fault, yays!)

 

[Bucephalus]

I wouldn't fret the Industrialization deal - you have options.

Yeah, but it was sloppy, I thought I'd learned better than that.

There is a sleeping worker in Paris!!!!

Merde, how did I miss that?

Now on to the railroad building

I would not have built a milnet, instead concentrated on getting the high shield fields at Paris and Orleans and Lyons railed up. And I don't really understand the worker distribution. The eighteen workers at home divide into six gangs of three (or is it nine gangs of two) for one turn rails on flatland. Put in the right places that's six or nine shiny new shields every turn.

IIRC, there are 4 returning from Iroquois lands; the others are on 'rail-to-Paris' orders, in three gangs of six, covering 3 tiles per turn? Is this not right? I thought it was the accepted wisdom to rail to the extremities of the Empire first?

There is too much cash in the treasury and science spending should be at least 90%. Spend it down to finish rush the factories and the like.

Medicine is due in 2, Science was turned down because of an over-run of beakers.

 

[Bede]

I thought it was the accepted wisdom to rail to the extremities of the Empire first?

That is indeed the "accepted wisdom" but I frequently go against that grain. In this case the only military threat is in the north, and it is not much of one and most of the army is up there anyway. With the game we are playing the shields are more important than a "rapid response" military. Other times call for other, different measures.

 

[Bucephalus]

That is indeed the "accepted wisdom" but I frequently go against that grain. In this case the only military threat is in the north, and it is not much of one and most of the army is up there anyway. With the game we are playing the shields are more important than a "rapid response" military. Other times call for other, different measures.

OK, understood. Thanks, Bede.

 

[Tribute]

... I can't play....

 

[Phaedo]

lurker's comment: Why is it "accepted wisdom"? Shouldn't the need for railroaids depend on your civ's needs? what is the justification for any "rule of thumb?" regarding railroads? By the time you get them you are already committed (being the rookie I am, I always find myself commited to all out war). If your need is mobility I can see the exterior being more valuable. If you are trying to populate your specialist colonies I can see the outer rim being more valuable but why a "rule of thumb?" I don't want to be a jerk here but the one thing i have learned through watching these succession games is that decisions should be based on your goals. You guys are on target, your core cities are productive and you conected to the north (through Mohawk-man) only to get the iron to railroad. Shouldn't your moves be to maximize your use of the iron for as long as you have it? (It won't last forever without a full-on war or unless you bring mohawk-man alonng for the whole ride). That aside, why is it accepted wisdom?
Again, I ask with all due humility m(_ _)m

 

[Tribute]

Can anyone actually read my posts? Oh noes! I've been globally ignored!

Right. Well, as you may have seen above, the "musketter.flc" file is missing. Does anyone actually have a "musketter.flc" file? Because I'm quite sure "musketter" is not how you spell "musketeer"

Could you try reposting the save, Bucephalus?

 

[Bede]

Can anyone actually read my posts? Oh noes! I've been globally ignored!

Right. Well, as you may have seen above, the "musketter.flc" file is missing. Does anyone actually have a "musketter.flc" file? Because I'm quite sure "musketter" is not how you spell "musketeer"

Could you try reposting the save, Bucephalus?

I can load the save just fine. The only way I can attach the file is as a zipped file. Extract it to the Civilization III \Art\Units\Musketeer\ directory. If that doesn't work its time for a reload