Dawn of Civilization v1.12 Discussion

[ezzlar]

Isnt it first promotion at 1 exp and second at 3 exp? Instead of 3 exp and 5 exp? etc

 

[Fresol]

No, there was a change on the UP. Plus, "3" is never the threshold. It is 2/5/10/17/26/37/50/65...

 

[Spirictum]

Your cities don't get flipped anymore if it's part of your core and not part of their core. Basically this means that all of Egypt is safe for you, since the starting Arab core is basically just Arabia now.

Thanks for the info. The maps should be remade to reflect this.

Egyptian land is really productive. You have three hills (Sena, Bronze, near Aksum), one with bronze/iron, two quarries, one horse and three forests. You just need to place your cities in the right spots and discover mining, masonry and animal husbandry. If you are desperate for more hammers, maybe conquer Jerusalem or discover metal casting to build workshops.

But if you want to enjoy the game you need to aquire other lands or build wonders. Sitting peacefully in Egypt with limited resources isn't enough.

You mean, if you want, you may have 1 productive city in Egypt right? That's it. Plains forests aren't really good sources of . Taking into consideration you have a ridiculously small core, and I like expansion games, then I can't have a truly productive city in egypt, just a bunch of shameful cities in production. By my analysis, Egypt may have 3 cities on its core. Egypt has a 3x5 core, that means 1 city in each corner to use the tiles surrounding the core. But one of the corners is a desert flood plains (that turns into desert) that has no food around it to grow, thus it's better to leave it as a cottage for the capital.

I didn't expand because I thought most of my territory woulf flip to Arabia, and fighting this would be impossible. I'll play it again from start now that I know Arabia won't flip my core.


But the -5 Happiness Stability since the beginning is still strange and I would like to know what has caused this

EDIT: Started a new game, played some turns, and then I realized I have -3 Happiness Stability. My city has 6 vs 4 . It has 3 pop, so it has more then a fourth of the average city size - , and it is of the average city size because it's my only city. Why is this happening?

 

[citis]

Thanks for the info. The maps should be remade to reflect this.



You mean, if you want, you may have 1 productive city in Egypt right? That's it. Plains forests aren't really good sources of . Taking into consideration you have a ridiculously small core, and I like expansion games, then I can't have a truly productive city in egypt, just a bunch of shameful cities in production. By my analysis, Egypt may have 3 cities on its core. Egypt has a 3x5 core, that means 1 city in each corner to use the tiles surrounding the core. But one of the corners is a desert flood plains (that turns into desert) that has no food around it to grow, thus it's better to leave it as a cottage for the capital.

I didn't expand because I thought most of my territory woulf flip to Arabia, and fighting this would be impossible. I'll play it again from start now that I know Arabia won't flip my core.


But the -5 Happiness Stability since the beginning is still strange and I would like to know what has caused this

EDIT: Started a new game, played some turns, and then I realized I have -3 Happiness Stability. My city has 6 vs 4 . It has 3 pop, so it has more then a fourth of the average city size - , and it is of the average city size because it's my only city. Why is this happening?

One productive city is enough, when you start so early. You can conquer or settle other productive cities.
If you have two cities in core you gain additional core population. If you have three cities in core you don't have additional core population. Choose wisely. However, I agree core is too small, red sea coast should be core too.

Egypt runs dynasticism, so spawn 4 warriors and hapiness problem solved.

If you like expansion I propose you Zanzibar and South Africa.

 

[Spirictum]

One productive city is enough, when you start so early. You can conquer or settle other productive cities.
If you have two cities in core you gain additional core population. If you have three cities in core you don't have additional core population. Choose wisely. However, I agree core is too small, red sea coast should be core too.

Egypt runs dynasticism, so spawn 4 warriors and hapiness problem solved.

If you like expansion I propose you Zanzibar and South Africa.

If I can have only one productive city on my core, but I may have 3 cities on my core, then I don't exactly have a productive core.


Why if I have 3 cities on my core I don't get additional Core Population? There is nothing written about that that I'm aware of.


I don't have Happiness problems, I have Happiness Stability problems. It always thinks I have more unhappy then happy cities and that's not true for most part of the game. This bug seems to get weaker after I get my second city.


I'll take those places into consideration, they seem nice indeed


BTW, I finally reached the same time as the previous game and my stability only got to Stable because of War Victories and the Economy. The happiness stability is always hurting me with no apparent reason and Foreign Stability is only there to destroy your attempts at expansion.

Isn't it a bit too much for in the classical era to penalize so much nations for Economic Isolation, and Collapsing Neighbors? My neighbors are always collapsing and I need OBs to get stability, so I end having more penalties then bonuses.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

I had the following situation in my last game, which I think is in general very unfun for the player:

I was playing Spain and had conquered Marakesh and Oran (the second moorish city east of it). Tunis was under control of Arabia. The Moors gone. My stability was +38.

Arabia got unstable at the time of the turkish spawn and had a crisis which led to Morocco declaring its independence (Tunis was part of Arbia, remember). This was okay, but my two originally moorish cities joined the new country immidietly, without any possibility for me to stop them.

I reloaded and worldbuildered Tunis to be independent and so the Moors were not reborn.

 

[Leoreth]

The reason is that if only a few cities resist independence they will join anyway to achieve proper control over the returning civ's territory.

 

[Spirictum]

Hey Leoreth,

Is there a way to check the stability code? I'm pretty sure there is something wrong with it, specifically on the Happiness part of the Domestic Tab.

Unless you have made some changes not accounted on the Stability topic on Civilopedia.

Also in my current game I have + 7 Unexplained Stability Points under the Foreign Tab. Is that because of the OBs or something else?

 

[Leoreth]

Python/Stability.py.

But I would prefer a savegame that includes "unaccounted for" stability points.

 

[Fresol]

There's plenty of them. Here's one.

 

[Spirictum]

Here is another one.

BTW, just let's check these here:

if city.isWeLoveTheKingDay() or (iPopulation >= iAveragePopulation and iHappiness - iUnhappiness >= iAveragePopulation / 4):
			iHappyCities += 1
		elif iUnhappiness - iOvercrowding > iPopulation / 5 or iUnhappiness - iHappiness > 0:
			iUnhappyCities += 1

If a city meets both criteria, isn't it counting for both? In Civilopedia it says it'll count as a happy city, but here it seems it's being accounted for in both happy and unhappy criteria, or am I missing something? (I'm not used to python, only to C).



Considering my game when I still had only 1 city, the only way this happiness part can be wrong is if the Average Population is somehow messed up if you have only 1 city.

iAveragePopulation = pPlayer.getAveragePopulation()

But that's an assumption, where may I check the code for getAveragePopulation Leoreth? After I built my second city the happiness stability slowly came back to normal. I say that because surely I met the prereq of a happy city, unless my single city wasn't bigger or as big as the average population (a bug).



Also I've stumbled upon this part here:

# Courthouse
			if city.hasBuilding(utils.getUniqueBuilding(iPlayer, con.iCourthouse)): iModifier -= 1
			
			# Jail
			if city.angryPopulation(0) == 0 and city.hasBuilding(utils.getUniqueBuilding(iPlayer, con.iJail)): iModifier -= 1

I'm not good at python, but there is a visible difference between Jail and Courthouse. Can you explain what is it? In civilopedia they are treated equally.



Another discovery through the code:

# Expansion
		if plot.isCore(iPlayer):
			iCorePopulation += (iCurrentEra + 1) * iPopulation
			if bSingleCoreCity and iCurrentEra > con.iAncient: iCorePopulation += iCurrentEra * iPopulation

Does this mean that if I have a single city on my core, and I'm already past the ancient era, then my core population is actually iPopulation*(2*iCurrentEra + 1)? Or for those who are not used to formulas it means you'll have Core City pop times 1 in Ancient, times 3 in Classical, times 5 in Medieval, times 7 in Renaissance, times 9 in Industrial, times 11 in Modern and times 13 in Future. While if you have more then one core city the progression is 1 by 1 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7). Am I right?

 

[DC123456789]

Here is another one.

BTW, just let's check these here:

if city.isWeLoveTheKingDay() or (iPopulation >= iAveragePopulation and iHappiness - iUnhappiness >= iAveragePopulation / 4):
			iHappyCities += 1
		elif iUnhappiness - iOvercrowding > iPopulation / 5 or iUnhappiness - iHappiness > 0:
			iUnhappyCities += 1

If a city meets both criteria, isn't it counting for both? In Civilopedia it says it'll count as a happy city, but here it seems it's being accounted for in both happy and unhappy criteria, or am I missing something? (I'm not used to python, only to C).

It's elif, so by definition it can only fall under one category (it'll only check the second if the first isn't met).

 

[Spirictum]

It's elif, so by definition it can only fall under one category (it'll only check the second if the first isn't met).

For a moment I thought it would check both, but you're right. I'm still a beginner on this

 

[Leoreth]

Here is another one.

BTW, just let's check these here:

if city.isWeLoveTheKingDay() or (iPopulation >= iAveragePopulation and iHappiness - iUnhappiness >= iAveragePopulation / 4):
			iHappyCities += 1
		elif iUnhappiness - iOvercrowding > iPopulation / 5 or iUnhappiness - iHappiness > 0:
			iUnhappyCities += 1

If a city meets both criteria, isn't it counting for both? In Civilopedia it says it'll count as a happy city, but here it seems it's being accounted for in both happy and unhappy criteria, or am I missing something? (I'm not used to python, only to C).

Yeah, elif in Python equals else if in C. So if the criteria for happy cities are met, unhappy cities aren't checked for anymore.

Considering my game when I still had only 1 city, the only way this happiness part can be wrong is if the Average Population is somehow messed up if you have only 1 city.

iAveragePopulation = pPlayer.getAveragePopulation()

But that's an assumption, where may I check the code for getAveragePopulation Leoreth? After I built my second city the happiness stability slowly came back to normal. I say that because surely I met the prereq of a happy city, unless my single city wasn't bigger or as big as the average population (a bug).

Are you sure you don't just have unhappiness from sources other than population in the city?

Also I've stumbled upon this part here:

# Courthouse
			if city.hasBuilding(utils.getUniqueBuilding(iPlayer, con.iCourthouse)): iModifier -= 1
			
			# Jail
			if city.angryPopulation(0) == 0 and city.hasBuilding(utils.getUniqueBuilding(iPlayer, con.iJail)): iModifier -= 1

I'm not good at python, but there is a visible difference between Jail and Courthouse. Can you explain what is it? In civilopedia they are treated equally.

Jails only give happiness for cities without unhappy population.

Another discovery through the code:

# Expansion
		if plot.isCore(iPlayer):
			iCorePopulation += (iCurrentEra + 1) * iPopulation
			if bSingleCoreCity and iCurrentEra > con.iAncient: iCorePopulation += iCurrentEra * iPopulation

Does this mean that if I have a single city on my core, and I'm already past the ancient era, then my core population is actually iPopulation*(2*iCurrentEra + 1)? Or for those who are not used to formulas it means you'll have Core City pop times 1 in Ancient, times 3 in Classical, times 5 in Medieval, times 7 in Renaissance, times 9 in Industrial, times 11 in Modern and times 13 in Future. While if you have more then one core city the progression is 1 by 1 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7). Am I right?

That's right, it's intended to help civs with small cores that only have space for one city.

 

[Spirictum]

I didn't, truly. I had to be inside the criteria of a Happy city because being my only city, it had to be of the average size, and with Dynasticism early on, and at least 2 units garrisoning my city all the time, I always had > more then a quarter of my empire average city size.

But instead of this, my Happiness stability always decreased, more and more, until -6, and then it came back slowly after I founded my second city.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm talking about this: iUnhappiness - iOvercrowding > iPopulation / 5. Your happiness isn't relevant in that criterion.

 

[Spirictum]

I'm talking about this: iUnhappiness - iOvercrowding > iPopulation / 5. Your happiness isn't relevant in that criterion.

But that's only checked if my city isn't considered a happy city, which it should have been because it had to be of my average city size (as it was my only city), and my happiness exceeded my unhappiness in at least a quarter of my average city size, always.


About iUnhappiness - iOvercrowding > iPopulation / 5 it may have been true some times, but that wasn't supposed to be checked if my city was considered a happy city.


Even though there is the possibility of once in a while my city not being considered a happy city, the behavior of the Stability Points shows that it had to be considered an unhappy city for most of the time (I always had it negative, reaching -6 in the worst moment).

 

[LacsiraxAriscal]

Hey, is there a summary anywhere of the changes between 1.11 and 1.12? Just wondering.

 

[ales_]

There's a file in the folder.

 

[Tigranes]

Yes in your folder there is v.12 history -- which shows all the new things done in this 1 year period between 11 and 12.