Dawn of Civilization v1.12 Discussion

[LacsiraxAriscal]

Marvellous, thank you!

 

[CaterpillarKing]

I found something I am entirely not sure about. Why is it that, every 5 turns or so, three barbarian swordsmen spawn in Tibet and attack Rasa. Is that old coding still in there? It doesn't make sense because it literally destroys the game. They took my capital only a few turns in... I had to WB them out each time. Just curious as to why they existed.

 

[Stuart98]

I found something I am entirely not sure about. Why is it that, every 5 turns or so, three barbarian swordsmen spawn in Tibet and attack Rasa. Is that old coding still in there? It doesn't make sense because it literally destroys the game. They took my capital only a few turns in... I had to WB them out each time. Just curious as to why they existed.

Difficulty setting?

 

[CaterpillarKing]

Paragon. I understand that it's supposed to be very difficult. Just curious if its supposed to be like that. That's the first time I played as Tibet in any difficulty.

 

[Leoreth]

These barbarians aren't supposed to spawn inside your culture, do they?

 

[CaterpillarKing]

They spawn just outside my culture but still in Tibet.

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah I figured I could leave these barbarians in because Tibet's culture would prevent their spawn if it is present.

 

[Tigranes]

I found something I am entirely not sure about. Why is it that, every 5 turns or so, three barbarian swordsmen spawn in Tibet and attack Rasa. Is that old coding still in there? It doesn't make sense because it literally destroys the game. They took my capital only a few turns in... I had to WB them out each time. Just curious as to why they existed.

Same thing happens on Regent, but you get 2 of them.

Here is what you do about them. Do not found your capital. Move settler towards the second Incense together with Missionary and Archers. Barbarian Lhasa will spawn next turn with 2 Warriors and 1 Horse. Move away and hit Enter. Lhasa will flip as your capital together with units and 2-3 Swordsmen. Found a second city in Tibetan plateau and spread Buddhism there. Culture from religion and palace will cover entire uncivilized plateau in 10 turns. Meanwhile use your free wins on intermediate Barbarian Swordsmen
to promote uber-archers.

Yeah I figured I could leave these barbarians in because Tibet's culture would prevent their spawn if it is present.

It is a good idea, which encourages human player to civilize plateau and Core one way or another, just like Tibet should. Not sure about AI Tibet, though. Perhaps they should get second Settler?

 

[Fresol]

Those barb swowdsmen can be dealt with(on Paragon or Emperor), use your 2 free wins and further merc khampas.

 

[Raroyo]

I think the system with the invasion troops spawning e.g. for Greece and Rome is very discouraging for human players (especially new ones).
I just barely made it as Egypt to the Great Library while defending vs Greek invasion. THEN Rome attacks me with normal troops. I lose Jerusalem but can save my core at least. THEN the Roman invasion troops spawn and I just can't get enough troops for that.

I think the system should be changed somehow. Maybe the invasion troops should spawn at the outside of the borders. Or there should be a definite warning with some preparation time. Not just a simple line in the Hints section.
An attacking stack next to your capital out of nowhere just makes no sense.

 

[Tigranes]

Raroyo, now that you know when Rome attacks you can prepare. No matter how many warnings, strategy texts, and forum posts you read -- there is something will surprise you on your first take. System is designed so you are not suppose to survive as Egypt, but unlike AI you can survive precisely because you learn for the future and AI does not

 

[Raroyo]

I know but it's just too frustrating having to try at least 3 times to play a new civ. I don't have that much free time anymore so it started to bother me.
Especially after I switched to marathon speed it got pretty frustrating to play half a day just to find out I should have prepared for this or that. At least on Regent difficulty there should be a little more room for errors.
But maybe without that much challenge this game wouldn't be as much fun as it is.

 

[ezzlar]

There should be a thread for all the DoC "surprises" that happens.

 

[Tigranes]

At least on Regent difficulty there should be a little more room for errors.
But maybe without that much challenge this game wouldn't be as much fun as it is.

I agree with you. Check this out: I have finished precisely 1 game with Civ 5 on default difficulty and was able to win without knowing anything about the entire game before that. It made me feel empty and disappointed. If surprises are historical, I don't mind loosing. No need to try on Marathon. Always start with defaults with new games to try them out.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Yeah, that's why I am no fan of RFC Antiquity. Medieval and later civs have relatively few surprises in comparison. I don't think that this problem is solvable, though.

Some people choose civs like Egypt for their first playthough (one of the cradles of civilization, quite a powerful civ in Vanilla due to its UU) and get seriously burned on the whole RFC thingy.

 

[Leoreth]

My first RFC game was as Persia for some reason.

 

[THEK1NG]

What are the triggers for a civ to collapse tech-wise?

Like in my Ethiopian game, I traded meditation to Babylon for agriculture. The happy Hammurabi didn't even appear, I just got sent back to the game and it said 'The Babylonian civ has collapsed!!!"

Weird, then I traded with the Roman Empire (Iron Working for Horseback Riding) and then all of a sudden all Roman lands I could see in Egypt became barbarian, with Roman troops at their borders. Why is that happening?

 

[Fresol]

Tech trade triggers stability check, nothing more. Check the stability guide thread for detail. The thread can be found through the index thread.

 

[billyleeback16]

What are the triggers for a civ to collapse tech-wise?

They collapsed because their stability sucked to begin with and the tech trade pushed them off the cliff. The discovery of certain technologies triggers a stability check. If their stability was already at collapsing and they failed the check that would cause a complete collapse.

The techs that I've found typically produce stability checks are the ones that:
a) found a religion (poly/monotheism, theology, divine right)
b) enable new government civics (monarchy, feudalism, liberalism, democracy)
c) are new military technologies (gunpowder, rifling, military science)

I've actually used that mechanic to my advantage in tech trades. I like to make incredibly imbalanced trades to a collapsing civ knowing that the ensuing stability check will kill them (usually the Mongols). I walk away with a tech and/or a bunch of gold and they die from getting liberalism traded to them.

 

[Tigranes]

Tech trade triggers stability check, nothing more. Check the stability guide thread for detail. The thread can be found through the index thread.

I strongly suggest discontinuing stability check after tech trades. In the hands of human player this becomes potent exploit, who will more and more often use it to his unfair advantage. AI is confused as is with all those new rules. Remember, the engine was adjusted to provide optimal performance with vanila rules!