[BTS] Deity One City Challenge on a Huge map with 18 civilizations

Do we really need to finish him? If we eliminate him, his space will take Cate or Caesar or Alexander - all 3 are really annoying opponents. Isn't it cleverer to have weak Frederick as a buffer?

I would keep him around for sure.
 
In addition to being a buffer, early production and research needs to directed to key wonders not killing Freddie given you can’t keep his land.

I wouldn’t put my spy points on him if you’re going to take his worker. He’s likely to put his points on you if you declare war on him and I guess there’s a risk that he won’t open borders. My understanding is that both of these factors would increase the cost of stealing techs from him. Lizzie seems a better bet to me.
 
Freddy starts with scouts, so not warriors. The option to raze Berlin is there. If you do you will have a lot more forests available soon. Culture fighting all the way to the copper will be a lot easier against expansions than vs a capital. Also with the German scouts eliminated you will have the hut on the pig up north at your disposal, for your 2nd warrior. I think the 1st warrior should move on to the next worker steal, probably from Greece. Not sure if he does but if Alex improves marble with a mine and then starts roading you will arrive right on time (it's a 2T window of opportunity), otherwise Saladin more reliable, roading everything all around (I've played this Imm/marathon where I visit Russia next. cannot speak from experience how to play this on Deity/normal) Note that not razing Berlin also causes trouble for captured worker(s) to pass through.
Maybe warriior1 can pick up a few huts too, in Africa (DoW Egypt, pass through) or in South-East Asia?

Warrior2 should be speed-built working stone I think, pick up the pig hut, then fogbust or move to Russia for worlker steal or the hut in Sweden. On marathon 3 workers is a nice number, would 2 be enough on normal? Warrior3 can stay at home for happiness.
Worker1 farms pig 1T underway to wheat right?

Looks like on the very 1st turns you have decide which strategy to follow, diplo or conquest. It influences build SH or not, raze Berlin or not, techpath.
I like the fastest way to Alphabet, through Priesthood as initially proposed. Reaching Alpha clears the sky big time. Wonder building + settled GP piling is usually the way I go whatever the goal.
 
In addition to being a buffer, early production and research needs to directed to key wonders not killing Freddie given you can’t keep his land.

I wouldn’t put my spy points on him if you’re going to take his worker. He’s likely to put his points on you if you declare war on him and I guess there’s a risk that he won’t open borders. My understanding is that both of these factors would increase the cost of stealing techs from him. Lizzie seems a better bet to me.

I thought about this. All your arguments are valid.
The problem is that I want to steal technology from him earlier - before i'll get Galley and even learn Sailing.
Also, as I see in XML file Frederick agrees to open the borders and trade techs even he is annoyed. The same is for happy resources and only for health resources he needs to be cautious. So, until I get -9 with him it is fine. About espionage weight - you're right, he will give me higher weight. But the same we can say about Elisabeth too - right now she knows only me, it will be hard for her to meet anybody else, as she is on the island, so she just don't have another option.
May be the best person for espionage will be none of them, for example, Caesar or Isabella ( that I currently haven't met). Will try to think on it each move analysing the new information.
 
So, I've taken the worker, and started to build a warrior.

Now it is T2.
T2.JPG


As you see, @Powerfaker, Freddi has a warrior in the city. And second settler. This is probably the difference between immortal with deity. So you just can't destroy him by now.

I use pigs ( 3F 1C ) for making a warrior. Another options - is wine cell ( 2F 2C ) or marble ( 2F 1H 1C) or even a stone ( 1F 2H 1C ). But it looks to me that fastest grows now is the most important. But if somebody says it is not - I would reconsider.
Plan for a warrior - is go to SE to meet other civs. Fast pace is essential before closed borders will close everything. And I want to meet other civs to be able to trade from first civ alphabet - I don't know who it will be, so I want to meet everyone. Except Mansa Musa. Meeting Mansa Musa I want to avoid at all cost for now, as i want to meet him only after an initial tech trades - for him do not increase my "tech whore" counter. Another civ I don't want to meet for now is Kate - because she is really demanding and capricious, but it is not in my will.
Plan for a worker - go to wheat cell and farm it for +2F. It will finish the work exactly when the city will grow. There is a barbarian hut at top, but it looks like that Frederick's scout will be there first, so no sense to send there a worker.

Espionage. Lisa - 6/0, Freddi - 12/4. Looks like AI starts with bonus on Espionage, can't explain otherwise how they got 12 points at move 2.
 

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@valergrad Apparently a warrior indeed, my mistake ....... and half my comments down the drain.:)
And yeah, makes most sense to grow now. Well, you know well what you are doing is my impression.:thumbsup:
 
Since everyone said it was impossible, I decided to give a OCC with conquest in mind a go... And I failed rather horribly. :D

I replayed the opening several times for some stuff "Once under a blue moon" to click.
I popped mining and then masonry from the piggy-hut up west, and the scandinavian one.
Stole a worker from Freddy, and then razed his capital for another worker at 25% odds.
So pretty much everything is absurdly rigged in the players advantage.

Built SH, ToAR, TGW, Oracle and Pyramids, founded judaism and the shrine, got an academy timely and also managed to unlock heroic.
Then at around T150 I had to cheat again and prevent Qin who was running away completly despite my best efforts, from winning lib. (Into worldbuilder and remove philo+edu+paper for him each turn, take that Qin!)
But then I got steel and made short work of Isabella who I had farmed TGW-experience with for quite some time for 2-3 settled generals.
I kept up in tech decently and was able to 1-turn any 17xp unit of my choice and could also buy any resource due to the cash from settled prophets and the shine
Got Julius down to 1 city and a vassal, then some progress against Alex to get Julius some cities.
Then I started to work through Cathy... But my GOD it's frustrating to try get a vassal to conquer cities. >_<
Had to throw in the towel at T272 because there is simply no way to get up a sufficient pace.

Never played earth18civ before, have through it to be abit silly when they just start with warriors and are so ripe for exploitation, but I'm starting to think that this can be tough even without the OCC setting.

But conquest in OCC, as you others have pointed out is probably off the table. At least I can't figure out how it could even be theoretically possible. :)
 

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It’s true that Fred will open borders at annoyed but I’m not sure that’s still true if you’re his worst enemy? However, having thought about it more I don’t think it matters. I think you get the espionage reduction if you have trade routes with the target city and not just from having open borders (?). Given that, until currency, you’ll only have one trade route, I doubt that’ll be with Germany as you’ll start earning the years of peace trade route bonus later with him than you will Izzy, Lizzie and JC etc (unless you worker steal from them too). Also, once you get sailing I assume you’ll end up with trade routes with Lizzie because she’s overseas. This pushes you towards Lizzie being a better longer term target. Another factor is Paris might start putting its culture on London earlier than Berlin which would make tech stealing cheaper. However, I’m not sure how culture spread works across the ocean. Some stuff to research/ponder.
 
However, I’m not sure how culture spread works across the ocean. Some stuff to research/ponder.

I flipped and thus razed London eventually in my trial game so it does spread over water.
Not sure how it effects espionage though.
 
Since everyone said it was impossible, I decided to give a OCC with conquest in mind a go... And I failed rather horribly. :D

I replayed the opening several times for some stuff "Once under a blue moon" to click.
I popped mining and then masonry from the piggy-hut up west, and the scandinavian one.
Stole a worker from Freddy, and then razed his capital for another worker at 25% odds.
So pretty much everything is absurdly rigged in the players advantage.
:)

There lies the problem with benchmarking OCC on a fixed map - so many things can drastically change the outcome. Early AI oracle? Oops. Great Prophet instead of Scientist? Darn. Wrong religion spread? No coalition, risky religion civic.

@krikav What do you think of this strategy for conquest?

Spoiler :


Julius Caesar --> Oracle Monarchy, Iron Working, limp to Feudalism on pillage gold. Start attempting to acquire vassals

Screenshot (428).png


Vassal 1 with Settler at 350 BC... not great but not terrible either.
Screenshot (429).png

 
I flipped and thus razed London eventually in my trial game so it does spread over water.
Not sure how it effects espionage though.
Given that I spend most of my life with French people in London that’s slightly alarming but in terms of the game it suggests that French culture spreads just fine to London and Lizzie is likely to be a good tech stealing target.
 
@CarpoolKaraoke
Spoiler :

I still like GProphets. They add hammers and gold, both of which is really nice. Beakers isn't end all be all if you are going conquest at all.
But you do need one GSci for the academy! :D

I think that strategy might work out much better. You have a early strong UU that you can wreck havoc with, you are IMP which is a godsend.
Getting early feud and start aquiring vassals is probably key, have to make it happen in the medieval era to have any chance I think. I got my first with cannons after T150 and that was to late.
 
@CarpoolKaraoke
Spoiler :

I still like GProphets. They add hammers and gold, both of which is really nice. Beakers isn't end all be all if you are going conquest at all.
But you do need one GSci for the academy! :D

I think that strategy might work out much better. You have a early strong UU that you can wreck havoc with, you are IMP which is a godsend.
Getting early feud and start aquiring vassals is probably key, have to make it happen in the medieval era to have any chance I think. I got my first with cannons after T150 and that was to late.

Oh, just in time:

Spoiler :


This brute won't vassal to me. I give up.

Screenshot (430).png


Screenshot (431).png


Are you doing fine on your own though?????

 
@krikav, I am glad that you've tried it. For me it was too scary even to try :)

For the culture spread - it is totally fine within ocean, right.
It’s true that Fred will open borders at annoyed but I’m not sure that’s still true if you’re his worst enemy? However, having thought about it more I don’t think it matters. I think you get the espionage reduction if you have trade routes with the target city and not just from having open borders (?). Given that, until currency, you’ll only have one trade route, I doubt that’ll be with Germany as you’ll start earning the years of peace trade route bonus later with him than you will Izzy, Lizzie and JC etc (unless you worker steal from them too). Also, once you get sailing I assume you’ll end up with trade routes with Lizzie because she’s overseas. This pushes you towards Lizzie being a better longer term target. Another factor is Paris might start putting its culture on London earlier than Berlin which would make tech stealing cheaper. However, I’m not sure how culture spread works across the ocean. Some stuff to research/ponder.

Thank you, I didn't know that espionage is cheaper if this is your trade route.
Will take this into account!
Agree that after I'll get sailing I should spend my espionage points to Lizzie.
 
@CarpoolKaraoke
I have tried to learn vassal mechanics a few times but the numbers havn't stuck in my brain yet.
But I think you need twice the number of land tiles compared to the AI you want to vassal.
I was helped with having alot of land tiles with Paris, but in reality you need to smash the AI down into a little coastal city to have a chance.
Not an easy task! And for subsequent vassals your first vassal counts as half, so it's very frustrating when you are clearing a enemy city turn after turn and the moron you are trying to help are just moving his doomstack back and forth, back and forth. ;)
 
T3.
Worker is going to wheat tile, but made a stop on a pigs tile with a pre-road.
Warrior got SE and met Alexander.
Plans are still the same, except I think no need to hide that I am going to learn Mysticism.
Trade routes with Lizzy, perfect.

Looking at relationships: all AI's aren't met each other yet.

T3.JPG
 
It’s true that Fred will open borders at annoyed but I’m not sure that’s still true if you’re his worst enemy? However, having thought about it more I don’t think it matters. I think you get the espionage reduction if you have trade routes with the target city and not just from having open borders (?). Given that, until currency, you’ll only have one trade route, I doubt that’ll be with Germany as you’ll start earning the years of peace trade route bonus later with him than you will Izzy, Lizzie and JC etc (unless you worker steal from them too). Also, once you get sailing I assume you’ll end up with trade routes with Lizzie because she’s overseas. This pushes you towards Lizzie being a better longer term target. Another factor is Paris might start putting its culture on London earlier than Berlin which would make tech stealing cheaper. However, I’m not sure how culture spread works across the ocean. Some stuff to research/ponder.
Culture spread over ocean works the same as normal but you can only spread culture to tiles that can be worked from the continent that the culture spreading city is on. (not necessarily from that city, just from somewhere on it's continent)
 
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