Deporting Disabled Children?

[Zardnaar]

Ok CFC thoughts on this one.

'Inhumane': The Government policy that deports disabled children

The policy is designed to block disabled migrants that could overly burden taxpayers.

www.1news.co.nz

Basically if you want to immigrate to NZ you have to pass a set of criteria which includes health checks.

Unfortunately if you are disabled or have disabled children you're probably not going to qualify. Or any other long term (read expensive) health condition. Once visa runs out you're expected to leave if you don't deportation can be used (there's a process of appeals etc).

This is due to cost the criteria used is $80000 over 5 years. Basically you won't get a visa

Our health system is under a lot of stress as well. Anecdotally I made a doctor's appointment last week or the week before. It's due on the 5th of December. There is an urgent doctor available but it's very expensive. Mostly going for a yearly physical check up and prescription renewal. 3 weeks to get a doctor's appointment.

Hospital is in similar problem with things like waiting times. Go in with a broken arm or whatever you might be waiting 8 hours. Flow on effects of Covid plus other problems.

 

[mdl5000]

"Officials make their decisions based on the expense to the taxpayer."

basically I see no real way to discuss the issue unless you intend to break yourself out of this very logic loop quoted right here. What possible ethics are there in a system of distributing finite resources?

 

[Zardnaar]

"Officials make their decisions based on the expense to the taxpayer."

basically I see no real way to discuss the issue unless you intend to break yourself out of this very logic loop quoted right here. What possible ethics are there in a system of distributing finite resources?

Well that's basically it. There's shortages for the locals so tough luck for non citizens I suppose.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Its an ethics loop, theres no easy way out.

 

[Angst]

nz is at the forefront of economic development, and is really wealthy. practically, you can afford this.

if your hospitals are strained, it's not because of some disabled migrants

 

[FriendlyFire]

Perhaps a middle ground would be for disable to pay for their own healthcare costs ?
The parent can continue to be working adults and covered by Government healthcare

 

[Zardnaar]

nz is at the forefront of economic development, and is really wealthy. practically, you can afford this.

if your hospitals are strained, it's not because of some disabled migrants

Not wealthy enough. Australia is richer and has been headhunting medical staff making a bad situation worse.

And visa free travel to Australia. Wages are generally 30-50% higher.

We've had the highest per Capita growth rates in the OECD, cost of living similar to California on Alabama wages.

 

[EnglishEdward]

A policy of simply not deporting disabled people under any circumstances means that parents may visit the country on a tourist/work visa etc.
and then dissappear leaving that country with the choice of letting the child starve or the burden of supporting the disabled child indefinitely.

This would become generally known and that country would then become a dumping ground for difficult family members.

Deportation policies are therefore almost inevitable in countries considering themselves obligated not to let such children starve.

The extent to which a country feels that it can be charitable and make exceptions to such a deportation policy is of course another matter.

 

[Zardnaar]

A policy of simply not deporting disabled people under any circumstances means that parents may visit the country on a tourist/work visa etc.
and then dissappear leaving that country with the choice of letting the child starve or the burden of supporting the disabled child indefinitely.

This would become generally known and that country would then become a dumping ground for difficult family members.

Deportation policies are therefore almost inevitable in countries considering themselves obligated not to let such children starve.

The extent to which a country feels that it can be charitable and make exceptions to such a deportation policy is of course another matter.

I don't think people would dumo their kids as such but move to countries with lenient access to healthcare etc.

Or in our case a backdoor to Australia. Come here on student visa get residency or citizenship sod off to Aussie for higher wages.

It's easier than dealing with Australian Visa's.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Parents split up, mother works, needs to feed herself and her healthy children but
can not find/afford a carer for her mentally handicapped child, so child is dumped.
This has happened internally in most countries e.g. Irish, Rumanian orphanages.
And if New Zealand doesn't retain a legal provision to deport, it'd happen there too.

As to lenient access to healthcare; there are plenty of instances of UK nationals
leaving for the USA to make their fortune, developing an expense medical condition
in late middle age or old age and returning to the UK to use its free at point of service NHS.

 

[Narz]

As to lenient access to healthcare; there are plenty of instances of UK nationals
leaving for the USA to make their fortune, developing an expense medical condition
in late middle age or old age and returning to the UK to use its free at point of service NHS.

No one who's made any sort of fortune would want to depend on the NHS for their healthcare

 

[EnglishEdward]

Ah, the ambiguity of the word "to" in the English language.

Latin does it better with "ut" (in order to) and "inde" (resulting in) being separate words.

The fact that they left the UK with the intention of making their fortune does not mean that resulted in them making a fortune.

 

[Senethro]

Taxpayers money is sacrosanct, but for some reason the money of those who don't pay enough tax cannot even be acknowledged. And thus human welfare issues are brushed aside as regrettably unavoidable.

 

[Zardnaar]

Taxpayers money is sacrosanct, but for some reason the money of those who don't pay enough tax cannot even be acknowledged. And thus human welfare issues are brushed aside as regrettably unavoidable.

Personally I would tax the ultra rich more plus inheritance tax and windfall tax etc.

Still wouldn't change immigration law in terms of foreigners getting free healthcare.

One of many reasons why I couldn't win an election. Lose the right on tax, lose some of the left on various causes (immigration, military spending a few other things).

 

[João III]

Sounds like soft eugenics

 

[El_Machinae]

Once again, the actual solution is viable diagnostics and therapeutics. R&D. Medical technology is heavily an information technology, and therefore can go through an s-curve and eventual deflation. Obviously, we cannot afford infinite medical demand. But medical demand does not infinite.

Once a solution to a medical problem is invented, it's available to undergo innovation until it's affordable. Everything before that is stop gap.

In the long run of future history, solving the problems will create more human well-being than rearranging the deck chairs.

 

[bernie14]

Once again, the actual solution is viable diagnostics and therapeutics. R&D. Medical technology is heavily an information technology, and therefore can go through an s-curve and eventual deflation. Obviously, we cannot afford infinite medical demand. But medical demand does not infinite.

Once a solution to a medical problem is invented, it's available to undergo innovation until it's affordable. Everything before that is stop gap.

In the long run of future history, solving the problems will create more human well-being than rearranging the deck chairs.

So... better eugenics?

 

[Farm Boy]

Really only if you believe in dirty seed and the happiness-efficiency cull. Otherwise it's treatment. No?

 

[El_Machinae]

So... better eugenics?

Well, partially. Anybody who pulls 'eugenics' from that should probably get snipped.

People acting on uterine diagnostics is part of the solution space however. I don't bemoan the damage done to the spina bifida community caused by folic acid pills. Nor the reduction of PKU complications due to simple testing and dietary changes.

Once a medical condition has a viable intervention, medical demand stops being infinite

 

[Farm Boy]

"Snipped" and "viable."

hehehe!