Design Contest Q&A thread

Still think that the Sidar should have immortal promotion for all units, but they cost 5x as many hammers, and their unit upkeep cost is tripled. That way you have few of them, and they are hard to kill :) But if that was the case, nothing we design could possibly be balanced properly :P
 
Still think that the Sidar should have immortal promotion for all units, but they cost 5x as many hammers, and their unit upkeep cost is tripled. That way you have few of them, and they are hard to kill :) But if that was the case, nothing we design could possibly be balanced properly :P

Yeah, which is why we don't design from flavor alone.
 
Wilboman did quite a bit of work on this very subject and produced the following:

The Languages of Erebus

In the Age of Magic, a common language was spoken by all humans, with occasionally rather major dialectical difference (like modern English), and extensively used in interspecies communication (still like modern English). That language was called Patrian. Aifon, Dwarven, Elven and Orcish were completely separate languages, with no common denominators whatsoever, based on development from an entirely different mother source.

Angels and Demons, while their voices are easily recognised by their sound and timber, have no defined "language" of their own. What you hear, is your own tongue, spoken perfectly, if a bit oddly. What they speak between eachother, is known only to them.

The Age of Ice forced a separation of the Patrian language, with each nation having 1000 years to develop their own dialects into entirely separate languages, formed, to a large part, by their culture and environment. The result is that few nations understand more than a few words of eachother's tongue anymore. In many ways, this is similar to the development of Norwegian dialects, where geographic separation led to some dialects almost turning into separate language, and the effect of Elven, Orc and Dwarven in some places is similar to the effect that Danish had on Norwegian, stronger in centres of government, weaker in the more rural areas, weakest in the remote valleys and fjords. That's just a note on inspiration.

On to the tongues as they are today:

There exists a Lingua Franca also in the Age of Rebirth. It is roughly similar to the original universal language, but has been changed by 1000 years of separation and the effects of new languages. Among other things, there is a lot more Elven and Dwarven in the new language.

Elven
Both the Svartalfar and the Ljosalfar speak the exact same language. There are no differences at all. Elven is what you might call a "strong" language. It effects other languages quickly and heavily, but Elves, being rather chauvinist, aloof and elitist by nature, never, ever feel the urge to adopt human linguistic traits or wording. They feel their language is perfect, and as a result, it doesn't change just because it is used by one or the other faction. Naturally, it didn't have any more trouble surviving the Age of Ice than the Elves did (meaning a lot of trouble, really, but not as a language).

Orc
Orcs have no illusions about the perfection of their language, stealing like crows, and breaking the stolen words, cadences and other traits of those they encounter and battle into a verbal shape that they are capable of pronouncing, rendering most of it practically unrecognisable. The once-proud orc tongue is thus only spoken by a select few, priests, shamans and the like - the rest speak a rather distressing and remarkably ugly pidgin.

Khazad
The Dwarven tongue of the Age of Magic remains rather well preserved among the Khazad. It has undergone some of the changes one might normally expect from a language in continual use for centuries, but due to both relative isolation and the rather conservative nature of Khazad culture, it has been changed far less than one might expect. A Khazad of the Age of Magic and a Khazad of the Age of Rebirth would be perfectly capable of conducting a simple conversation.

Luichurp
The Open-Skiers were heavily effected by human in the Age of Magic. In the course of their isolation in the Age of Ice, the Dwarven and Human tongues merged into a language that was entirely Luichurp-specific. But it is not in the Luichurp's nature to stick stoically to their guns. Extensive trading with other nations in the Age of Rebirth has tempered the Luichurp creole with a strong tint of the new lingua franca, something that sets them apart from most others, who exclusively use it in foreign relations.

The Humans

Elohim
The Elohim language is the Rebirth tongue that is closest to the universal tongue spoken in the Age of Magic. This is closely connected to the way the Elohim survived the Age of Ice, as both an organisation with a constant influx of new people, allowing the oddnesses of dialects to be balanced out, but also their role as the tradition bearers and protectors of the old knowledge. The Lingua Franca of the Age of Rebirth is heavily modeled on Elohim.

Sidar
The Sidar are extremely good at picking up tiny changes in pronounciation, inflection, intonation, body language and a host of other elements of communication. Thus, their spoken language has no need of being very complicated, beautiful, or expressive. A few words will generally suffice. Those few words that are used to a very large extent the same as those of Patrian - however, they do not hesitate to pick up other words that suit their style of communication particularly well. As a rule, these words spread like wildfire, almost instantaneously adopted by all Sidar.

Sheaim
The Sheaim language is, in fact, engineered by the Sheaim leaders in such a way that the sum of all people speaking Sheaim across the globe is a ritual, the chanting for a spell whose purpose is unknown to all but a very few in the closest circle around Os-Gabella. As a result of this careful balance, the Sheaim language needs to be constantly tweaked and changed in subtle ways, to take into account the constant headaches caused by other languages affecting Sheaim, an increase in speakers, and not least Sheaim words being adopted by other languages. Even a surfeit of incorrect pronounciations can cause problems, so correct language is rather strictly enforced, both physically, magically and psychologically.

The Calabim
The Calabim speak two different languages, both derived from human speak. The vampire aristocracy speak a far more elaborate and elegant language, with a stronger influence from the original language. The people speak a weak and simple dialect, so atrophied by lack of education that it is hardly understandable to outsiders.

The Amurites
The Amurites speak both "High Amurite", which is closer to the original language of the Amurites as effected by the presence of Kyorlin, and "Low Amurite", a creole of languages based on high Amurite, but strongly affected by the many who flock to learn Amurite magic.

The Grigori
The Grigori, more than any other, are strongly affected by the many newcomers, who flee the oppressive reign of the priests, gods and religions. Grigori is, in many was, the English of Erebus, constantly undergoing change through the adoption of new words, altering them to make a seamless, flowing and evolving language. The Grigori are particularly noteworthy for their very interesting swearing, which is devoid of religious connotations.

Balseraph
The Balseraph tongue is reminiscent of Cockney rhyming slang - it is musical and quick-flowing, playful, inventive, constantly evolving, and purposely completely obscure to outsiders, even though the words used appear to be the same on the surface.

Kuriotates
Like Italy, the Kuriotates are, in reality, a federation of strong city-states united by a common language. Like in France, this language is one of the main things that bind the nation together. Thus, there is a very strong adherence to it, and a firm, but kind, drive to keep it as pure and uniform as possible. The language is unique in that it has strong effects from Centaur, a language dissimilar to the other languages of Erebus, and in an inexplicable hissing intonation on the S'es.

Lanun, Hippus and Doviello
These languages share two very noticeable traits: they are heavily influenced by the preferred geographical environment and the cultural peculiarities, and there is an enormous variety of sub-dialects, understandable to eachother, but often quite remarkably different. The languages have also changed more than most away from the original language, making it hard for diplomats to speak the new universal tongue without their own tongue affecting it.

Illian
Mulcarn enforced a dilect from the Age of Angels among his priests. It is a harsh language nearly impossible for human speech, requiring years of training for even simple phrases (fortunatly Mulcarn communicated with his worshippers in unchanging ceremonies, so a wide range of flexibility wasnt required). Currently the Illians speak a broken version of this mandated language with a mix of the current lingua franca of Erebus.

Bannor
Very large incidence of Orcish and Doviello words, very rigid in basic form, but with a lot of space for new words.

Malakim
Desert dialect, heavily influenced by elven. Fluid, easily shifting, like the sand they come from.
 
Sylvanllewelyn: How about some kind of tower? Tower of the Watchful, of the watcher ...?
Just that 30 tile radius is too much, it's half of the map on duel to small
If it was mapsize related, then 30 might work on huge
 
@ Keilden - Shade

You are aware that the Sidar become shades by consuming their own souls while still alive, aren't you? The notion of them getting shades when units die doesn't fit their theme at all (although it might be interesting if shades never went anywhere, either to Hyborem or Basium, in the afterlife; since their souls were consumed while still alive, there is nothing left of them once they finally die). Anywhay, even if it did fit a 10% chance of getting such a unit only after researching such an advanced tech would be far too weak.

@ khanjackal - Ghost Pirate

You are aware that the Sidar abhor the undead, aren't you? They would never use a unit like this.


@ thomas.berubeg- Phantom

Again, this doesn't really seem to fir the Sidar theme. The Shades consume their own souls, not those of their victims. This sounds much more like a vampire to me (getting more strength based on feasting/feeding/defeating living units but slowly losing it while "starving" might be an interesting change for the existing Vampirism promotion)


@ princecharles -Illusionist

Illusionists are already the Svartafar unique conjurer. It would be rather confusing to have 2 different unique units for two different civs with very different abilities have the same name. The special abilities of your illusionist seem like they would be very difficult to implement. Also, heroes have already been made much less likely to defend.
 
their own souls[/I], not those of their victims. This sounds much more like a vampire to me (getting more strength based on feasting/feeding/defeating living units but slowly losing it while "starving" might be an interesting change for the existing Vampirism promotion)

my main idea for this was the idea of preventing any chance of an after life for thier opponents, which in my mind is the worst punishment a sidar would imagine... the inability to live in any world, the complete consumption of the soul, is something i think the Sidar would completely be terrified of, and make use of as a weapon. Kael? what do you think?
 
toward Capn Charlie :
your idea is interesting.. but very powerful !!
imagine crippling your foe's futur territory..
make it maybe one or two of those idea to limit it:
1)-2/3 str, 2mvt; when with a cattle : limited to 1/3str, 1mvt.
2)-in place of ranger ???
3)-when unit die, if he has a cattle, cattle is placed on the tile.
4)-shepheard is an one time action per unit, ever. (so you cannot deplete a huge territory...)
5)-when a corral is put on the cattle, the shephard action has x% chance of failing, unit die.
6)-shephard ability appears after some promo prerequists (or unit is only upgradable from scout lvl 3-4 -reduced effect for mid-late game)

options 1, 3 and 5 are my favorite ones, combined :
-limited attack AND defense will make them very weak in the wilderness, so that few would come back from very far away and coming back with cattle would arrive, but not be overpowered, main use would be to move the cattle around inside your empire.so as not to make the unit overpowered, especially in the hands of a player vs AI
-unit dying loosened the cattle would permit ressources to not be distroyed too much... (already enough issue about that with blight, thank you :))
-it won't be so easy to cripple a develloped empire
 
-limited attack + defense makes them very weak in the wilderness

This makes them tougher in defending. He meant that there should be a decrees in attack and an increase in defence for that unit.
I must say it is the best unit suggested for now. I would only add a restriction so you can not place the animal resource on a title and next to a title with a resource present [any resource, even metal] Would AI cope with it? It would be a good try to program the AI in reference to future quests and handling equipment.
 
I need help here.

What could be considered as 'sin' for the following religions:
- RoK
- OO
- Emperians
- Council of Esus

I have an idea about an event type for the event contest but I can think of what could trigger it under those religions.
 
[NWO]_Valis;6187317 said:
I need help here.

What could be considered as 'sin' for the following religions:
- RoK
- OO
- Emperians
- Council of Esus

I have an idea about an event type for the event contest but I can think of what could trigger it under those religions.

Thats a good question. I would think the following:

1. RoK- Sloth, wastefullness, ignoring tradition
2. OO- Ignorance, foolhardiness (more in the aspect of ignoring wisdom than not having knowledge, OO worshippers arent always the brightest bunch but they believe strongly in portents and omens and would think those that ignore them are forfeit).
3. Empyreans- Ego, pursuing ones own goals apart from the group
4. Council of Esus- Betrayal (at least in regards to the council, not in regards to people they betray for the council), especially those that give secrets for money or to avoid punishment
 
Thank you but I was thinking about something in terms of game mechanic.
Would I be correct if I translate those 'sins' to something like that:
- RoK - having a stockpile of money and not spending them, this would force your game play to keep developing, always expand and build, changing mines to windmills
- OO - no clue here :(
- Empyreans - declining a help in a war when asked by your ally/friend
- Council of Esus - sharing technology, sharing world map, giving units as gifts, sharing strategical resources

also I have deducted following for hte rest of the religions:
- Order - razing good/neutral a civilisations city, overall doing things that raise AC
- AV - lowering AC, being in peace for too long(?)
- FoL - cutting down forests, building lumber mills, setting forests on fire, killing [not capturing] animals
 
Well thank you for the approval, but it was just a very rough idea.

And yes, I would make it a "defensive" unit, lower attack strength than defense. I was trying to think of some way to make the unit scale, but it went beyond the scope of the contest fast into an entire tree of recon starting with scout and moving on up to beastmaster. Kinda starting to wish I'd just said something else like maybe a trade caravan "mini great merchant" unit that uses a promotion to generate gold in a foreign city then must return to the capital to regain the promotion to go again.

But yeah, I think allowing them to be masters of animal husbandry would be interesting and the shephard mechanic is the only way I see of doing it. One time use seems a bit extreme, but what if it was tied together with their "later use". Once it pops its one time ability to pick up a resource when it plops it down elsewhere it automatically builds a an advanced corral (or better, a shephard's hut tille improvement, like the basic cottage in look, to illustrate the difference in technique) around it, and you're left with a neutered defensive unit that is probably best left right where it is due to the low attack power, even though it COULD be used to try to capture some animal units by acting as bait.

The idea would be that even if the malakim cities are stationary well THIS could allow them some more flexible nomad type feeling activities such as exploring (definite rewards for finding unguarded livestock) and some light raiding.
 
[NWO]_Valis;6187425 said:
- RoK - having a stockpile of money and not spending them, this would force your game play to keep developing, always expand and build, changing mines to windmills

That wouldn't be fun as the Khazad, where you want to stockpile 500 gold per city for the Vault bonus.
 
To the discussion of Sidarity. :) Some ideas from here and there...

The Restless
Sidar UU

0/0:strength:
1:move:

Unit can not be built. Arises whenever Sidar living non-immortal unit is defeated. Ignores terrain movement cost. Can explore rival territory. Water walking. Can pass unpassable terrain. Completely invisable to everyone but owner. Can share tile with enemy units. Can be sacrificed to increase the population in Sidar city.

Model: Djinn

--------------
I beleive it is strongly flavoured and can give some interesting effects but not overpowered.
 
[NWO]_Valis, Capn Charlie :
I was just saying that the shephard ability, discribed by Capn Charlie would be overly powerful.
As for Amurites firebows, giving a unit much power in special ability should be balanced by a weakness : ie reduction of strength.
Thats why I proposed not only a reduction of attack but a 3/3 str instead of 4/4 (hunter) and 3/5 (proposed). making the unit weaker would provide for a good balance with overpowering ability.

I proposed making it a 1 time effect per unit... but it is not a good idea (you will end with a cripled unit.)

just like that they are already powerful and versatile units.. maybe increase the micro a bit.. but why not.

making them weak is just a way so as not to deplet a large land too easily (the unit can go far away, steal ressources and always come back.. nobody's gonna kill a 5str unit in early game.) then there is a big barren land for neighbours...
then people it back when the land is yours.
 
For the resource moving idea, I would add in there that picking up a resource can only be done IN YOUR CULTURAL BORDERS. That or make it so that picking up a resource in any other cultural borders is an act of war.

Otherwise, you sign open borders, then systematically strip your ally.

But it would be nice to be able to strip resources from a civ you are at war with, hence the idea to make it a declaration of war to do it in their borders.



Kael: Can we propose multiple events? The other 2 specify one entry each, so it seemed implied that it was only 1 event, or a chain of linked events (which counts basically as one). But Maksim makes a good point, it did not specify such a limit (though with only 1 event able to win I don't know if it is worth proposing so many)
 
Great unit idea Capn Charlie.

To expand on xienwolfs thoughts.. I also think that picking up a resource should not be allowed in neutral territory. Only within ones own borders, or in the case of war within the enemies borders.

EDIT: But then again, this does add an interesting element to early exploration. I just worry that effective herding would remove too many of these resources from expanding civs. But if the unit is 3/3 instead of 3/5 then perhaps this would make it dangerous enough that it would limit the horse thieving a bit.

And perhaps instead of removing the resource, the unit can instead bring back just breeding pairs instead of the entire herd. In this way the resource would remain and the unit would still be able to spread the resource to a new local. But this could become quite unbalancing if every cities tile had an animal resource on them. So your idea of placement restrictions would be very important. Though maybe instead of placement limits, it could instead be limited to X per city? Resources do naturally occur next to each other. And perhaps in the case of war, the unit could slaughter the herd removing the resource entirely?
 
TravellingHat: 100 military unit penalty means that you can't build any military units in that city without Order temples etc. Surely this is not intentional?
 
Back
Top Bottom