Design: Resources

[eerr]

---at present, you seem to have the goal of making controlling multiple mana rescources important, and i was brainstorm a way to get multiple casts out of a spell caster-
-for every single type of mana rescource you control.
1 unit of that mana spawns for each of that mana you control.

-that mana can be used on a spellcaster anywhere so that he can cast 1 free spell of that type per turn(he can still cast another spell normally)

-for example, i control 2 fire nodes and their mana in my capitol.
then i can use one of them on my fire 2 body 1 mage to allow him to cast fireball, and then another spell, say, haste.

-this would give the benefit of allowing spell casters more power with access to mana and a use other than wonders for multiple mana nodes

-it would not allow a magic unit to cast the exact same spell twice however
though arcmages would be able to cast both fireball and meteor shower



---Also, another "religous" based way to gain xp for magic users, perhaps only religious ones

-demonic bargain(double or nothing!)- 50 50 chance of losing the caster or doubling the casters xp

-festival- pay 200 gold to give 1 magic unit 20 xp(no more than once per turn), causes a celebration in a random city

-gold conversion-unit destroys the nearest gold mine(in your territory).
you lose all your gold and the unit gains the square root of the amount of gold you controlled, and gains the greedy promotion
(may switch to civs with more gold than you)

-worthy sacrifice-sacrifice a (living?)heroic unit(world unit/or hero promo/or 100+ xp), 4 times his base combat in xp is tranferred to target unit, as well as 1/4 the xp of the unit. you gain 3/4 of the sacrifices xp in gold

*my original though was that these would all be late game ways to level magic users, which it can feel so stuffy developing from basic adepts to fight a tier 4 war.

 

[Sureshot]

the double or nothing seems like a really bad idea, since people would just try it and only save if they "won", and potentially could give that unit unlimited xp for free

 

[QES]

On Mana

Also with the renovations that the spell casting structure is going through, im hesitant to judge how things will work once its in place. Maybe that improvements can be made, but until we see how the resources wind up working, we cant know the results of this conjecture.
-Qes

 

[eerr]

you could make the double or nothing depend on non randomized seed(if thats possible with randomized seed) but people can just do the same thing now with units lost the wrong way, or just do it more directly with the editor...

 

[QES]

@eerr
Kael said that for the most part one wants to minimize "chance". As players get to feeling ripped off if something even probable doesnt go their way. 99.9 anyone?

The less you risk to "chance" the more gratified the player. So unless the druel factor pay-off is "worth it" its not a concept you want to encourage.

I myself came up with random ideas for things invovling a very harsh existance as a ruler, chances for rebellion, schism, natural disaster - you name it. But these would deminish the feeling of power players get from running a civ. Frankly i could use a little less power, but I'm masochistic.
-Qes

 

[eerr]

or how about, the lich loses half the promotion he's taken (aside from lich, undead, and death 1-3)
if he loses channeling or sorcery he has to relearn it...
but this opens up the possibility of focusing on a new spell sphere...

 

[loki1232]

A new resource that has a tradeoff when you use it:
Tobacco:
Base bonus-+1 gold
Building a plantation gives +2 food, +3 gold.
However, the actual tobacco resource gives +1 happy, -2 health. It also has a very high trade value, so multiple tobaccos can be traded for a protfit. So you have to make a choice--health or happiness.

 

[Jono]

Happiness on tobacco should disapear after a while...

 

[Sareln]

Happiness on tobacco should disapear after a while...

Why would the happiness dissappear? Fall from Heaven isn't exactly the happiest world in the cosmos, people die every day, to random chance or the less random invasion. They might as well enjoy it as they go right? (I envision the average lifespan in this world being somewhat close to ... oh 35 - 40... tops. Call me on it if I'm wrong.)

 

[Sureshot]

it should be more even, +1 happiness for -1 health

but you know, theres about as much proof that tabacco kills as there is that cheese does (so cows should cause -1 health too)
always pay attention to those anti-smoking commercials, they make a point to tell you that cancer and lung disease kills more then drunk driving, murder, a variety of accidents, and a variety of simple diseases, but one thing they carefully avoid, is that lung disease and cancer are nowhere near the killers that heart disease is, and cheese and other such foods are the culprits (heavy cholesterol). but only a crazy person would try to convince you not to eat cheese and to tell you you're killing people if you serve them it. smoking can actually decrease appetite (which could stop ones intake of 'dangerous' cheese), and moderation is the key to surviving any of the worlds poisons (excessive cheese eating will kill you quicker than excessive smoking).

i dont smoke, but i dont listen to propaganda one way or the other, or id be deluding myself.

added:
if more abilities can be attach to resources, they should make 'green' tabacco that decreases production, increases war-wariness, and adds +2 happy lol

 

[eerr]

yeah well smoking is still a quicker way to kill yourself than eating cheese-much faster though drunk driving can probably do it quicker. and chewing tobacco believe it or not, is easier to go kill onself more so than smoking.

number 2 still isn't bad for a killer-but it also does reveal the biggest killer of obesity. the thing is that it's much easier for most people to never start smoking than to not eat too much if ya know what i mean.

 

[Lord Vermillion]

it should be more even, +1 happiness for -1 health

but you know, theres about as much proof that tabacco kills as there is that cheese does (so cows should cause -1 health too)
always pay attention to those anti-smoking commercials, they make a point to tell you that cancer and lung disease kills more then drunk driving, murder, a variety of accidents, and a variety of simple diseases, but one thing they carefully avoid, is that lung disease and cancer are nowhere near the killers that heart disease is, and cheese and other such foods are the culprits (heavy cholesterol). but only a crazy person would try to convince you not to eat cheese and to tell you you're killing people if you serve them it. smoking can actually decrease appetite (which could stop ones intake of 'dangerous' cheese), and moderation is the key to surviving any of the worlds poisons (excessive cheese eating will kill you quicker than excessive smoking).

i dont smoke, but i dont listen to propaganda one way or the other, or id be deluding myself.

added:
if more abilities can be attach to resources, they should make 'green' tabacco that decreases production, increases war-wariness, and adds +2 happy lol

LMFAO!!!!!!

 

[Sureshot]

yeah well smoking is still a quicker way to kill yourself than eating cheese-much faster though drunk driving can probably do it quicker. and chewing tobacco believe it or not, is easier to go kill onself more so than smoking.

number 2 still isn't bad for a killer-but it also does reveal the biggest killer of obesity. the thing is that it's much easier for most people to never start smoking than to not eat too much if ya know what i mean.

easier to not smoke? i dunno, some vegetarians dont eat cheese either, and no one ever tried to peer pressure someone into eating cheese lol

and the facts are facts, more people die to heart disease than to anything tabacco related.

 

[Grillick]

I'd just like to point out that obesity doesn't, in and of itself, cause any major health problems with the possible exception of adult-onset diabetes.

Obesity is a symptom of the root causes of heart disease, high cholesterol, et al.

The real danger isn't obesity itself, but poor exercise habits and poor dietary habits.

The major problem with focusing on obesity is that people who, for whatever reason, are unable to lose weight get discouraged, even though their improved diet and exercise habits are making them healthier.

 

[Sureshot]

working out usually means gaining weight, as working out turns fat into muscle usually (and muscle is heavier then fat, though more dense so more toned). if someone is tryin to lose weight you've got it all wrong, its better to just concern yourself with 'getting into shape' which is entirely different than weight loss (though getting into shape means more defined muscles, and muscles tend to use up fats faster turning it into energy). thats why i can't gain weight lol, im toned and have a poor appetite.
most people get screwed over if they try to lose weight because most diet things actually convince them to not workout (why workout when they're eating diet foods?!) and most diet foods are addictive and make you hungry (so you have the diet drink often for instance, then end up feeling hungry, and it happens often due to the addictiveness... so the drink is not directly to blame, but it causes factors defeating dieting purposes).
the best way is just to be active and practise exercises because they'll give you more energy, not because you expect to lose weight quickly.

 

[loki1232]

Please lets not be too off topic in this thread.

More importantly--I agree that tobacco isn't even, but I reallywanted there to be a choice between happiness and health for a resource, and tobacco presented itself.

Or perhaps Opium?
Base yeild +1 gold.
Plantation (for lack of a more appropriate improvement) gives +5 gold.
Opium gives +2 happy, -2 health.

What do you think?

*calls Kael*

 

[Lord Vermillion]

That sounds good to me.

 

[Sureshot]

ya sounds good, i just didnt like how it was more unhealthiness than happiness

 

[vorshlumpf]

If anything like that was implemented in-game, I'd be happier if it was not modelled after drugs in our world. Give it a new name. Make it magical (like reagents). Make it unique.

- Niilo

 

[Sureshot]

could make those affects apply to reagents.. so theyre good for happiness, but bad for health