For modern Germany that is definitely the case, but it's a relatively modern development. Cologne has the benefit of going back into the Roman period, being one of the original electors of the HRE, and being the larger city for afaik all of history. Not to mention that the centre of the medieval German state was always along the Rhine so there should be a city to represent that.
[Development] Canonical City Location Suggestions
- Thread starter Leoreth
- Start date
Is there a way to delete or edit landmarks in the WB without using the erase tool? For some reason I can't edit them.
Further question: would anyone be interested in making a map of indigenous placenames for Central, South and North American cities in the (admittedly unlikely) event that an indigenous civilization defeats the foreign invaders? Like in the event the you are playing as the Aztecs/Inca and you fight off a European invasion and you settle the ahistorical areas, it doesn't make much sense to have randomly chosen placenames from the dominant language when indigenous names already exist. Same if Aztecs collapse and respawn as Mexico without Europeans settling in the territory or does Mexico only spawn if Europeans settle?
Further question: would anyone be interested in making a map of indigenous placenames for Central, South and North American cities in the (admittedly unlikely) event that an indigenous civilization defeats the foreign invaders? Like in the event the you are playing as the Aztecs/Inca and you fight off a European invasion and you settle the ahistorical areas, it doesn't make much sense to have randomly chosen placenames from the dominant language when indigenous names already exist. Same if Aztecs collapse and respawn as Mexico without Europeans settling in the territory or does Mexico only spawn if Europeans settle?
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merijn_v1
Black Belt
There is a PR pending that fixes this problem.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
Would this be an appropriate solution for Montreal/Ottawa? I move the confluence of the St. Lawrence River and Ottawa River 1E, so Montreal is still located at the confluece. And Montreal is in the bend of the St. Lawrence, which I think is accurate as well.
Spoiler :
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DC123456789
Deity
Would this be an appropriate solution for Montreal/Ottawa? I move the confluence of the St. Lawrence River and Ottawa River 1E, so Montreal is still located at the confluece. And Montreal is in the bend of the St. Lawrence, which I think is accurate as well.
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Ehhh... this looks really wrong, particularly since the Ottawa River is already stretched to the west to reach Toronto, so stretching it to the east as well is very, very distorting to the shape of Ontario.
merijn_v1
Black Belt
I didn't take the shape of Ontario into account. You're right about that. But then why is the Ottawa River stretch so far west in the first place. Even without my suggestion it is too far west now I look into it.
I agree that my suggestion distorts the shape of Ontario, but I think it improves the Montreal and Ottawa situation.
I agree that my suggestion distorts the shape of Ontario, but I think it improves the Montreal and Ottawa situation.
It is merged now, pulling the branch again should enable this feature.
DC123456789
Deity
The Ottawa River was extended west to buff Toronto. I think it would be acceptable to extend it either west or east, but both is going a little too far.
Also, are we going for all 4 of Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City? Obviously if we aren't this is all a bit moot.
@TJowling Great Slave Lake is rotated to keep its proper shape (it's not really possible to have it on a 45 degree angle with the tiles and any other setup just looks utterly wrong), that's why Yellowknife ends up more to the east than it really is.
Genghis Khaiser
King
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2012
- Messages
- 771
Makes sense. Do you happen to know why is Frankfurt used to represent southern and central Germany? I know this is the case since Vanilla RFC.
Come to think of it, I just hope Cologne isn't too vulnerable to attacks from the west, but it may add two powerful cities by sacrificing one. Frankfurt makes a great city in most of my games as Germany, having a very productive area and being the Holy City of Protestantism.
If I may request, could the Holy City be moved to Berlin? It's the closest city within German territory to Wittenberg, Saxony. I'm not sure why it is Frankfurt, especially because southern Germany is better known for being Catholic.
Frankfurt is not really in southern Germany how I would define it, and it's a Protestant city, but granted. I see it more of a representation of western Germany, given that you cannot place any city actually on the Rhine on the current map without choking the Netherlands completely.
soul-breathing
Emperor
This is a Canonical City Location Suggestion in China and Korea, and some few plots of Vietnam and Russia. There're some blank plot I can't make sure, maybe make some updates next time.
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hnrysml
Warlord
- Joined
- May 18, 2016
- Messages
- 275
I've tried this at times when playing ahistorically in 1.14 and 1.15, but it's very difficult to find names for many places, and I often ended up going with the name of the Indigenous people who inhabited a given tile. A lot of the cultures and chiefdoms of South America, especially, only have Spanish names today.
Sometimes there are situations where it is quite easy to give an Indigenous place name for a city, for example, the name of modern day Managua may have come from the Nahuatl Mana-ahuac, and Nahuan language speaking people had settled in Nicaragua before colonial times, therefore, if the Aztec player should found a city there, it makes sense to call it Mana-ahuac.
For Australia (I'm thinking for if Indonesia, France, or Japan, say were to settle there) there are an abundance of place names and clan names known, but giving either to a city seems kinda arbitrary. However, to me, it does seem less arbitrary than a random place name from that civilisations language of cities that already exist somewhere else irl.
Yeah, I meant less nahua-izing or Quechua-izing names and more just choosing what the people in the region you settle called the place. And yeah it could apply to ahistorical settlements too or even historical settlements where the name is uncertain. I know it's equally as unlikely that an imperialist Aztec or Incan civilization would adopt the indigenous name of the places they settle or conquer but at least the languages are closer than European languages so there is a chance it might translate or be adopted. Mostly I just despise settling Texas or Puebla and seeing "Texcoco" or "Teotihuacan". Like, I know that place is not Texcoco.
There's a whole series of maps like this for different places in the Americas which could be very handy in this: https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/46654546117710112/?lp=true
I guess this is getting off-topic. Maybe this warrants a different thread. Hell, if we wanted to get really complicated we could even create a system by which a newly settled city in the Americas, Africa or Australia could take an indigenous name by chance as there are many examples of indigenous names adopted by the colonial powers.
Here's a suggestion for canonical cities in Sumatra / Malayan Peninsula region. I don't have Civ4 installed atm (will do), so I use Merijn's image to put on my suggestion. While it does look cluttered, I hope it's still readable. I would recommend to aim for Palembang-KL-Medan/Padang setting in 1800 AD and Palembang-Malacca-Kutaraja setting in other scenario.
I'm glad to see that development for DoC is still active! Reminiscing times from my early high school when I joined the discussion, around 8 or 9 years ago.
Edit: probably that mountain 1S Kutaraja & 1W Medan, I assume it is meant to be Mt. Leuser? I would recommend turning it into a hill instead to increase productivity for whichever Northern Sumatran city there.. or you could add Tobacco there in later era
I'm glad to see that development for DoC is still active! Reminiscing times from my early high school when I joined the discussion, around 8 or 9 years ago.
Edit: probably that mountain 1S Kutaraja & 1W Medan, I assume it is meant to be Mt. Leuser? I would recommend turning it into a hill instead to increase productivity for whichever Northern Sumatran city there.. or you could add Tobacco there in later era
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Or Valencia, as on the map, as long as the Moors having two cities in Iberia doesn't create balance issues. I think Valencia should be preferred over Cartagena both for historical and modern importance and because it spaces the cities a bit better.
Yeah, that should work.
Generally I propose these:
*Meroe -> Dungulah -> Hartum (modern day Sudan)
*Ninua -> Nineveh (Assyria)
*Knossos -> Heralceum -> Handax -> Candia -> Iraklion (Crete)
*Ujjaini (Avanti)
*Kryptos Limen -> Masqat (Oman)
*Chersonesos -> Kefe -> Kherson (Crimaia)
*Caen (only if you want to simulate an French-English rivalry)
*Kyunglung (Western Tibet)
*Scuin -> Glascow (Scotland)
*Konigsberg -> Gdansk -> Kaliningrad (Teutonir order)
*Sarai -> Caricyn -> Stalingrad -> Volgograd
*Al-Diriyah -> Riyad (dawn of Saudi Arabia)
More specific in Greece:
*Knossos (should be founded as Indie before Greek spawn)
*Athens (Greek spawn location)
*Thessaloniki (should be present in medieval game and later)
*Maybe Ephessos -> Efec?
*Meroe -> Dungulah -> Hartum (modern day Sudan)
*Ninua -> Nineveh (Assyria)
*Knossos -> Heralceum -> Handax -> Candia -> Iraklion (Crete)
*Ujjaini (Avanti)
*Kryptos Limen -> Masqat (Oman)
*Chersonesos -> Kefe -> Kherson (Crimaia)
*Caen (only if you want to simulate an French-English rivalry)
*Kyunglung (Western Tibet)
*Scuin -> Glascow (Scotland)
*Konigsberg -> Gdansk -> Kaliningrad (Teutonir order)
*Sarai -> Caricyn -> Stalingrad -> Volgograd
*Al-Diriyah -> Riyad (dawn of Saudi Arabia)
More specific in Greece:
*Knossos (should be founded as Indie before Greek spawn)
*Athens (Greek spawn location)
*Thessaloniki (should be present in medieval game and later)
*Maybe Ephessos -> Efec?
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