Ecofarm
Deity
Which part of that is confusing?
Are you one of those "no science for deduction" guys?
Differences between Chinese and Western education systems
- Thread starter Teeninvestor
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Which part of that is confusing?
Are you one of those "no science for deduction" guys?
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Scientific method refers to bodies of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.
How does that apply to mathematics? It does apply to applied maths of course, but that is probably better classified as physics.
How does that apply to mathematics? It does apply to applied maths of course, but that is probably better classified as physics.
Bolded part false. The US educational system has abandoned the poor.
Applied math still isn't physics or a science because math is merely a tool, not the subject itself.
Ecofarm
Deity
Try google maybe?
Then what's a mathematician? A hammer swinger?
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Well we were taught Newtonian mechanics and relativity as part of our applied maths course which I consider physics.
Stuff like differential equations and numerical methods are just tools though, I agree.
It's as if ecofarm thinks mathematicians go through numbers like this:
1+2 = 3
2+1 = 3
1+3 = 4
3+1 = 4
hmm... I think we may have some evidence that a+b=b+a here
EDIT: I see ecofarm can google though Well I guess you win the thread with your incredible argument skillzors
Stuff like differential equations and numerical methods are just tools though, I agree.
It's as if ecofarm thinks mathematicians go through numbers like this:
1+2 = 3
2+1 = 3
1+3 = 4
3+1 = 4
hmm... I think we may have some evidence that a+b=b+a here
EDIT: I see ecofarm can google though
Well I guess you win the thread with your incredible argument skillzors
The mathematical equations themselves isn't what is science in its entirety. The equations are worthless if they don't either conform to empirical reality or ain't sufficiently predictable and tested.
The equations describe the nature of physics, but they are not physics in themselves.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Semantics.
More like a guy who builds hammers.
Do you have anything more useful to say? Yes, it's semantics, but semantics is a very important thing.
And this was exactly what I was talking about. In English classes, or in my English classes, which is of course what I am basing this of, Shakespeare can mean anything, and you are encourage to find what in his work what isn't actually there. This goes with your provided definition of abstract- apart from concrete realities.
Maths is the very definition of quantifiability. To quantify is to put in terms of numbers. To show the exact value of. This is what Maths is. Finding values.
Maths is real and actual. It is not merely a notion. That is what I am saying. So, I have not misused the word.
Metaphysical can mean abstract, amongst other things. Again, this is what I have been saying. That Maths is not abstract, not metaphysical.
And yes, using big words makes me feel good.
Shaihulud
Deity
Well, a scientific fact/theory must be falsifiable to be defined as science. A mathematical theorem cannot be found to be false, therefore it is not science. I suppose maths is a form of logic and I think logic is defined under philosophy. Btw Chinese students are besides being study fiends, also very good at spotting questions. They will preview all the past year exam questions and make a good guess on what is going to come out next. Its not a good system to reward that.
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
This is not a Chinese thing. My teachers tell me to do this, and we constantly practice past papers, to know what type of questions to expect. And it worked exceptionally well for me.
PhroX
Deity
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Yeah, thats just normal for tests. It worked particularly well for me in one class at uni, where the paper was identical to the one from the previous year
Desmond Hawkins
Deity
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While I believe that most westerners need to study harder and stop resting on their laurels, I would not overly tout the eastern education systems. Overloading students with work can lead to simple "survival mode" memorization where one simply remembers what they must to pass a test, then promptly forgets it all to memorize for the next test.
Asian students I know do tend to value education and they are bound to do well, but it isn't because of all the material beat into their heads when they were 12. Sure they "learned" calculus when they were in their diapers but they don't remember it. I find they don't pick up things in university any faster than the western educated-students. If anything it is the other way around; the westerners are better with creativity and problem-solving, whereas the Asian (educated) students are in grade-survival-mode-memorization. The reason they are so ubiquitous in western universities is because they VALUE education, but you can VALUE education without being beaten into studying stuff as a child that you are too fatigued to really absorb.
I am pretty sure the Finns do just as well in maths as the Koreans, but they don't have kids jumping off of bridges before their final exams. Canada is up there too. Westerners are lazy, but theys till manage to pick up most of the material, because the western learning process is more efficient. It turns out sleeping helps the brain learn.
America's public education system is presently FUBAR, but this wasn't always the case, and it wouldn't take THAT much reform to make it better again. Perhaps a de-emphasis on football/cheerleading (though not on exercise and sport in general) could help.
EDIT: And I would take a Hungarian math student over all of them.
Asian students I know do tend to value education and they are bound to do well, but it isn't because of all the material beat into their heads when they were 12. Sure they "learned" calculus when they were in their diapers but they don't remember it. I find they don't pick up things in university any faster than the western educated-students. If anything it is the other way around; the westerners are better with creativity and problem-solving, whereas the Asian (educated) students are in grade-survival-mode-memorization. The reason they are so ubiquitous in western universities is because they VALUE education, but you can VALUE education without being beaten into studying stuff as a child that you are too fatigued to really absorb.
I am pretty sure the Finns do just as well in maths as the Koreans, but they don't have kids jumping off of bridges before their final exams. Canada is up there too. Westerners are lazy, but theys till manage to pick up most of the material, because the western learning process is more efficient. It turns out sleeping helps the brain learn.
America's public education system is presently FUBAR, but this wasn't always the case, and it wouldn't take THAT much reform to make it better again. Perhaps a de-emphasis on football/cheerleading (though not on exercise and sport in general) could help.
EDIT: And I would take a Hungarian math student over all of them.
The parents of Asian students I know tend to value education.
carmen510
Deity
QFT. Generally, Asian students I associate with just follow their parents' wishes, mostly because they're strict and don't want power to escape their hands, forcing their kids to do everything they want to. While many Asians I know are burnt out, I haven't seen any whom are depressed or done any actions associated with depression.
I'm happy to report that I'm pretty much the only Asian in school who has unstrict, caring, and loving parents. They never forced me to attend any extracurricular activities, except Test Prep for an Entrance Exam and a brief 2 month course in math after I had some trouble. I've never taken piano, tennis, swimming, or violin lessons outside of school. I learned tennis and badminton out of my own free will, and am currently taking swimming.
El Koeno
Emperor
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Judging from my three months at a Chinese university, the stereotype that all Chinese students work hard is just nonsense. Most of the Phd students in my office didn't show up every day, and those that were there spent a lot of time playing computer games, watching movies or even napping.
Also what I heard from teachers is that Chinese kids in genereal are pretty passive in class. I can't judge this my self as most Chinese that study here have language problems, and so naturally are not as vocal as other nationalities. I didn't attend any classes in China (I did research). But it seems most kids just sit in class and accept whatever the teacher has to say, whereas western students are encouraged to ask questions; whether that is to clarify things for themselves or to point the teacher to his mistakes doesn't matter. Of course, for a Chinese pointing a teacher to a mistake would be an unacceptable affront to the harmony in the classroom.
In all, I think the Western image of the hard-working Chinese student, for a large part comes from the fact that we mostly get to see the 1% of Chinese students that are good enough to go abroad. 1% of all Chinese students is still a very large number though.
Also what I heard from teachers is that Chinese kids in genereal are pretty passive in class. I can't judge this my self as most Chinese that study here have language problems, and so naturally are not as vocal as other nationalities. I didn't attend any classes in China (I did research). But it seems most kids just sit in class and accept whatever the teacher has to say, whereas western students are encouraged to ask questions; whether that is to clarify things for themselves or to point the teacher to his mistakes doesn't matter. Of course, for a Chinese pointing a teacher to a mistake would be an unacceptable affront to the harmony in the classroom.
In all, I think the Western image of the hard-working Chinese student, for a large part comes from the fact that we mostly get to see the 1% of Chinese students that are good enough to go abroad. 1% of all Chinese students is still a very large number though.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
It usually rubs off on the next generation.
Slaughter
Paladin
The hell? Is the chinese governament composed of hopeless retards? My school day begins at 7:30 and ends at 12:00 or hereabouts. Its already THE SUCK, and then the Chinese go and try to top it in suckness? NOT EVEN A LUNCH BREAK?!
I just lost all faith in humanity.
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