Diplomatic Victory Elimination Thread

[Archon_Wing]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [5]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26] (25+1) Early game advantages, decent culture income and early exploration does help to some extent.
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [31]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16] 15+1 Just because you found a religion, does not mean you have to go for a religious victory. You don't have to force your religion on everyone (only religion founders get mad anyways), and you can even gain favor by promising to stop (and then doing it again after you've kept your promise). Religion has other benefits like culture and faith, as well as defense. I can spread Defender of the Faith to my CS's and allies to help with defense. Furthermore, Peter is one of the best generators of culture and doing so gets you better governments which is more favor and closer to Future Civic which is more favor. In addition, Russia saves much gold because they get tiles for free. You can buy favor with gold. Certainly all these bonuses are all solid and consistent, unlike other civs that have to play slots.
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [18]
36. Saladin/Arabia [12]
37. Seondeok/Korea [16]
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [15] = 18-3 The only real source of favor is RNG based, and outside of Military Emergencies takes a bunch of turns. It's not like they get actual bonus to winning emergencies either. England or Germany would have had better production to win aid emergencies, for example. A civ with a military bonus could actually liberate cies more effectively in Military Emergencies.

 

[lotrmith]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [5]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [31]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [18]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9] 12 - 3 Getting a religion without having built a holy site is like buying Hypatia without having built a Campus.
37. Seondeok/Korea [16]
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16] 15 + 1 For a different argument, let's consider the *ease* of DV. Sure you can conquer the world to cheese a DV, but that is by no means *easy* and it takes a lot of energy and effort. With Canada, and some other strong DF, low grievance civs, you can sit back and relax and still win a DV with little effort while you casually play the game to your heart's content.

 

[BarbarianHunter]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [6] (5+1) --- I am no expert at diplomatic victories but fail to see how taking cities without penalty will not help. Diplo victories are long & drawn out. I'd wager you could flip an entire empire (or two or three) before triggering one. Culture is good for DV's as they yield specific points for a DV and higher tier govts yield more envoys and diplomatic favor than lower tier govts. More cities = more theatre squares = more culture = more diplomatic favor.
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [31]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [18]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [13] (16-3) --- Korea Sixteen, Eleanor's France 5?
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [16]

 

[bengalryan9]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [31]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [15] (18-3) What exactly does Scotland bring to the table here that says he should have more points than Canada does? Nothing? Pretty much what I thought...
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [13]
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [17] (16+1)

It's not like they get actual bonus to winning emergencies either.

Nobody does, so it's not like Canada's lagging behind anybody in this respect. Canada doesn't even have to win to get double favor - come in second and still get more favor than whoever wins, without putting in all the work to win.

England or Germany would have had better production to win aid emergencies, for example.

This affects every other civilization left on the list, too, but at least Canada gets bonus favor when finishing second to mitigate it.

A civ with a military bonus could actually liberate cies more effectively in Military Emergencies.

How many of the civs left on the list actually have such a military bonus to begin with? Not many. Outside of a couple of those remaining Canada is on even ground with most of them in regards to a military emergency.

These are both pretty specific cases to downvote Canada on, though... should we give credit to Canada for having a huge advantage over most civs in the Nobel Prize competition (basically a free DV point)? I think it'd be a similar point to make... but I'm not going that route.

Again... can someone explain to my what makes Scotland better at DV than Canada? Some of you seem to be of that opinion, so I'd love to hear it.

 

[TeddyMain]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [31]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12] [15-3] @bengalryan9 To answer your question about Scotland being better at DV than Canada: without a doubt no. They do have a bonus to protectorate wars, but those don't really help during military emergencies as they usually deal with a city-state that is already conquered. Yeah they have some good science bonuses, which can get the Seastead tech, but its definitely not enough to be considered even top 20.
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [13]
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [18] [17+1] Yeah they aren't going out this early. Not on my watch. Also, people tend to forget that Canada's UU and UI synergize well with their ability, the extra tourism from national parks (Mounties) and the hockey rink's insane amount of culture really help get extra favor and advance to the civics that provide Victory Points.

 

[Ziad]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [31]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10] (13 - 3) Generation of science does not make you directly better at DF just because you can possibly potentially get to some techs a bit faster than other civilizations. You still need to generate enough diplomatic favor to actually win and this civ has nothing, absolutely nothing, going for it in this regard other than meager culture bonuses. In fact one can argue that the best way to win a DF is through a careful balance so you don't get too far ahead too fast, and Korea's lopsided science throughput can push you in ages faster than you want
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19] (18 + 1) I'm not a fan of Canada but I'm legitimately annoyed by how much bias has been injected into this thread, further diminishing just how much it actually matters. A civilization that gets direct bonuses to diplomatic favor generation should not go before civilizations that generate them indirectly though gold (purchasing DF) or, more offensively, very indirectly through warfare or science/culture generation. It's just sad just how many votes have been wasted.

 

[leandrombraz]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [3] (6-3) - At this point it just got awkward to downvote, so I'll double on my last 3 downvotes that still stand.
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [32] (31+1) - I'll start to double my vote on the best Civs instead of delaying the inevitable. Most Civs left are pretty decent for Diplomatic but they have to go down, no point in keeping them alive.
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [19]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[kryat]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [3]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33] (32+1) - Reliable envoys, rapid mobilization for military emergencies, what’s not to love?
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [30]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [16] (19-3) Strong in most contexts, but doesn’t really have much going for this victory type.
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[Weraptor]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
8. Eleanor/France [begone] (3-3) the weakling doesn't do much to support the extra needs of DV
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [35]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31] (30+1) I see double envoys, I upvote
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [16]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[SirMediocrity]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [15]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [36] (35+1) Great diplomatic bonuses.
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hunary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [13] (16-3) Next on the chopping block. Trajan doesn't have anything toward a diplo victory.
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [19]

 

[lotrmith]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [27]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [12] 15 - 3 A well rounded civ but ultimately not as good at DV as some remaining rich boys or envoy powerhouses.
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [36]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [12]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [17]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [20] 19 + 1 Deserves to last to at least top 10.

 

[Archon_Wing]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24] 27-3 I have no idea how she is still here. At least Norway could explore and meet CS's.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [12]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [36]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [31]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [13] 12+1

Well, they're not very good, though then again I question why they're here over other choices that are eliminated. But Science means a better military to help with Military Emergencies and to reach Seasteads. Better production makes it easier to accomplish both aid emergencies and build wonders that give diplo victory. This synergizes with their Great Engineer ability.

Oh, and if you didn't know, there's literally a competition where the goal is to generate Great Engineer and Scientist points. If people actually played the civ, they would know that Scotland is excellent at generating these points. Though I guess you could argue this competition may not come up. But it's still there.

You could argue this is a dull rationalization, and I don't even like Scotland. But it's still easy to come up with and unfair to ignore. Ultimately, I do think favor is being overvalued since things like wonders are often a big chunk of the victory. Even excluding that Temple, it's still a good quarter of the points.

36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [17]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [20]

 

[bengalryan9]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [12]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [36]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32] (33+1) A favor factory (like others with bonuses to favor) who is likely to fly through the Civics tree (unlike others with bonuses to favor).
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10] (13-3) I do know that there is competition involving Great Engineer and Great Scientist points, and I do actually play them because I quite like Scotland and their Enlightenment ability. It doesn't make them all that good at a diplomatic victory, though, and there's also a competition that directly rewards favor generation as well so I it's not like Canada doesn't excel at a particular competition either. Scotland's science allows them a great shot at 2 DV points (Potala and Seasteads), but most of the DV wonders are in the Civics tree and require culture, which Scotland may struggle to produce if they're building industrial zones instead of theater squares.
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10] If science is a reason to keep Scotland around, shouldn't it apply to Korea as well? Even moreso?
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [13] Corrected as it seemed it got changed to 17 for some reason.
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [20]

If favor doesn't matter, why isn't Sweden, America, Hungary, or Greece getting downvoted? Why just Canada? Hmmm...

 

[Leucarum]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [18] (21-3) Not sure I see much in her favour here...
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [12]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [36]
22. Kupe/Maori [26]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [13]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21] (20+1) This is a weird thread...

 

[Isengardtom]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [18]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [12]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [36]
22. Kupe/Maori [27] (26+1) early exploration has a higher chance of first meets / more envoys
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [10]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [10] (13-3) I don’t see much working in his Favor
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]

 

[leandrombraz]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [18]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [12]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [37] (36+1)
22. Kupe/Maori [27]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [28]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [7] (10-3)
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [10]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]


I've nothing relevant to say that I didn't say already

 

[kryat]

3. Catherine/France [23]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [18]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [9] (12-1) Decent at culture, faith, and emergency participation, but others here are better overall.
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [37]
22. Kupe/Maori [27]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [29] (28+1) Flushed with cash means pretty much guaranteed wins on sending aid.
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [7]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [10]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]

 

[enKage]

3. Catherine/France [24] 23+1 Non direct approach, but has some flavour.
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [24]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [15] 18-3 Any reason Indonesia was missed in downvoting till now? Extra DF? No. Above average culture? No, unless Nan Madol allied. Rich enough to compete with always rich Mali and Cree or usually rich Phoenicia or situationally rich Poland,China, England, Persia or Egypt? No way. Strong warmonger? Yes, but water maps. In addition tendency to found religion = easy greviances from theo battles.
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [9]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [37]
22. Kupe/Maori [27]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [29]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [7]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [31]
43. Trajan/Rome [10]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]

 

[TeddyMain]

3. Catherine/France [24]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [21] [24-3] I think Phoenicia is a little overrated in this thread to be honest. Don't get me wrong, they definitely have bonuses that can apply (gold production, but then again its just above average), but other than that nothing really stands out for Dido. I know I'll probably get smack for this, but I feel like I needed to address it.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [9]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [37]
22. Kupe/Maori [27]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [29]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [7]
40. Tamar/Georgia [31]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [32] [31+1] I've stated my reasons before, I just gotta keep a good man up. Also, I just realized Teddy's combat bonus and the Rough Riders could be useful in protecting city-states on your home continent. Just thought of that! It's not much, but it adds to America's great diplo favor build-up.
43. Trajan/Rome [10]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]

 

[Ziad]

3. Catherine/France [24]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [28]
10. Dido/Phoenicia [22] [21 + 1] Phoenicia played properly makes more money than Mali unless you rig the map with deserts so calling them "average" is hilarious. She has good incentives for early exploration, generates enough resources to buy favor (like Mali), settles everywhere so is always within reach of city states for protection (without the surround city cheese exploit) and trade routes with civilizations, and is inoffensive enough in her gameplay paradigms that maintaining Alliances is easy all hell since she has almost no ways of generating grievances through her gameplay.
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [25]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [15]
15. Gorgo/Greece [24]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [9]
20. John Curtain/Australia [23]
21. Kristina/Sweden [37]
22. Kupe/Maori [27]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [29]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [33]
30. Pericles/Greece [32]
31. Peter/Russia [16]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [22]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [23]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [10]
36. Saladin/Arabia [9]
37. Seondeok/Korea [7]
40. Tamar/Georgia [32]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [32]
43. Trajan/Rome [7] (10 - 3) Overrated in general and definitely weak in Diplomacy.
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [21]