Dirk's deity game pt II

[DMOC]

Not because the tile settled is grass and not plains. If there's no +1 stratreso there or an ongoing GA that is.

I'd settle in place as well, IMO there's enough easy production (13 base + somewhat high prob on stratreso) that doesn't necessitate extra farms. Though I guess on average I'm one of those evil cottagers that obsolete scares children with.

You're right, I tested this out. The levee description is bugged then.

Anyway after reading the info I now think in place is best, since it seems like in place is usually best if you're unsure of 2 different spots.

 

[bestsss]

Tech: AH->Mining-BW and then decide

 

[Dirk1302]

Played the first round until finishing worker/AH

Settled in place, oh well.

1 ne would have been good, I would never have figured it out. It's a good tile for other cities as well so we just live with it. Start AH and move the warrior, fear for isolation for some turns but then

Not so bad, he's rather useless, hard to bribe, not very willing to speed both empires along by trading techs but at least he'll probably won't attack me. He will poison the water though, a bit strange for an environmentalist. Also he has scouts and he took some time to reach me, there's a mild indication he isn't that close.

Next leader i meet

Well that's great, if i can more or less keep up with her in tech we'll be great friends.
There's one thing not so great about Liz though, i think she's programmed to beeline towards lib rather soon. MM is an even faster techer than Liz but in my experience a bit less dangerous if it comes to beelining lib. He seems to be more more easily diverted by things like DR, an early demo beeline or banking. I haven't checked this in code and since there are 3 english leaders i don't meet Liz every day but this is what i seem to remember from games i played with her on the map.

Tech AH and finish worker. We have horses which makes the outlook a lot brighter. No move we considered would have lost them btw.

Scouted land

Looks very good, no ai border in sight and room for 3 good cities in lands behind capital already. My next move will be trying to place a city near the dye/cow, exact spot to be discussed. Rexing is my favorite style of game play and for now the map and the organized trait look good for it. No commerce resource though so have to be a bit careful not to go overboard.

Hinduism and Buddhism found but not by someone i know.

And as expected Liz and Sitting Bull get along fine due to relation factor. Liz has 9, Sitting Bull has 8. This relation factor is an important factor in determining ai-ai relations and has no effect whatsoever on ai-human relations.The more these factors differ the more these civs will hate each other. There is an element of randomness involved though, before the game starts a random number, i believe between 0 and 3, is thrown to determine how important this relation factor is going to be for this game. Don't know how this all quantifies but it's often significant.

There is also warmonger respect. If civ 1 has warmonger respect 1 and civ 2 has warmonger respect 2 for instance this'll boosts relations between those 2 civs with 1. These warmongers almost always have very low relation factors too.

Those 2 factors, warmonger respect and different relation factors explain why the Lizs and MMs of this world are so often attacked by the Ragnars and the Montys and why they only turn on each other if there is no Liz or MM in the neighbourhood. Warmonger respect and relation factor are hidden modifiers, they don't show up on the diplo screen when you hover over them with the mouse.

 

[whats a navy]

I think there's a really good city spot on the wine to be had. really glad you didn't settle NE or else that fish would have been wasted. Over all this looks like no early wars will be needed because of the lack of borders and SB's scout didn't arrive until late. Looks like a good game

 

[kossin]

The 3 spots in the north are obvious, but more scouting will be necessary, I think, to dotmap the south.
There are 6 ways to settle the cow+dye. None of them are riverside and 2 look 1 off the coast. That leaves: 1N,2N of dye, 1NW of dye and 1SW of cow.

So I would:
-Check for coastal food east and west
-Check for another food around the dye

In the case of food, settling like this may work, dotmap in spoiler.

Spoiler :

 

[JammerUno]

Looks good enough, no early commerce or happiness sofar, but two grains for easy early health. The city E of the wine would be a nice site for early production and later a GS. Let's see what further scouting reveals about the south, perhaps the mountains will give you an opportunity to block off the part of that river we can see with two cities. That would claim quite some land.

I'm not sure about what to tech after mining. BW seems the obvious choice, although there might be good seafoods on the coast in the south, so maybe fishing before you settle there.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Mining-BW is a definite choice. Production is great and commerce is limited in this area of the land mass. I am a big fishing/coastal fan, in and there's a good amount of it on this land but chopping and whipping will dominate this early game.

Spoiler :

In my shadow, the only wonders I've built are the Great Lighthouse and Great Library.

 

[DMOC]

I like a city north on top of the wines tile as a Globe Theatre/Great Person city (or 1e but that loses cows), but of course that waits until you settle the south.

Not enough data to post finalized dotmaps on the sout so I'll leave those comments until later.

Will the worker farm or pasture cows first? Farming gives more food but cows gives more tile yield overall so I'd go with that if given the choice.

 

[Dirk1302]

I was also thinking of placing a city on wine, would be a great city for gpp farm and Globe but probably means one city less in the backyard. So depends on how much room there is in the south. We're not in a hurry near the wine spot, the first cities'll be placed to the south i think.

I was also wondering in which order the worker should go about his business. Rather tired now but when i play the next round i'll do some calculations on that first. Gut feeling is that cow first is better, it's 1 food less so slightly slower growth but it's up 1 turn earlier and 3H should be better than 1 food. Maybe use that 3H for an early barrack. I think i'll find some barbs this game and with a barrack i improve my chances to unlock HE early.

Talking about He, apart from the commerce resource marble and stone are missing so far. I would really like to find marble on this map.

Techwise mining->bw stands out now imo. Don't think i'll find copper really near now but it's good to know where it is, also chopping can come in handy.

 

[Duckweed]

You updated pretty fast. I'd settle for levee without any hesitance -- an outdated comment.
I'd settle the northern wine city 1st for fastest GS pumping. An early harassing war for more land is a probability since you have horse in BFC.

 

[JammerUno]

It's a 6 yield tile against a 4 yield one, the cow will give you earlier warriors, but a slightly later settler. I don't have the tables for improvement times and growth for normal speed though, so what do I know.

I'd pasture the cow, move to the rise, irrigate, move 1E, build road for one turn (MICRO!), move to the horses, pasture, build road, move 1W, finish road.

 

[Dirk1302]

@Duckweed, knew you would say that. We had exactly the same discussion in the deity challengers game, situation wasn't that different too guessing about resources etc. But once we got to get too SP it was hardly relevant anymore. If game is tense and i don't have 20 cities by that time i may regret my decision however.

As it is didn't contract another resource in the west and with the shape of this land the cultural influence to the west isn't that important. So as it is 1e might have been a tad better, i got 3 nice grass tiles in the east though so i'm not worried atm.

Settling on wine is probably the best move but i don't think my first city should go there? Unless you say let them come and we'll kill them. That might work well with Liz but i wouldn't like to go H2H with SB this early.

@JammerUno, indeed your proposed order looks most natural. It's a bit of a nuisance that we lose a movement turn for each resource we get up. So i certainly micro in between.

@kossin, your dotmap looks like the most natural alternative to settling on the wine.

In the end more scouting is needed, it's important to know where the closest ais are and who they are. I thought that was most urgent so i moved the warrior on through the woods. It's important to check the coasts too but since the first city'll probably be inland to the south there's a bit more time to scout the coasts, very happy with horses in this respect, won't be long before we''ll have chariots running around.

 

[DMOC]

You updated pretty fast. I'd settle for levee without any hesitance -- an outdated comment.
I'd settle the northern wine city 1st for fastest GS pumping. An early harassing war for more land is a probability since you have horse in BFC.

I think settling at lesat 1 city to the south (if there's another food resource there) to block land for about 2 extra quality cities and having the wine third might be best. Not talking about the cows, but further south. We never know if Sitting Bull might put down an otherwise nice city leaving him out of options (no one rushes him right?).

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

Do not underestimate your culture threat. Also, coastal looks like your best bet for commerce here.

Expand south to guard north is my take on this map.

 

[Kadazzle]

Expand south, once you do that settle on the Wine for an easy GPP farm, and later a Globe Theatre city (as many have mentioned). I have no clue about dotmapping the south, though. I normally don't prioritize production early, so I'd be inclined to settle 3W1S of the southern cows for an early commerce city, then you can plant a city on the coast to snag the dye/cows.

@Obsolete:
From looking at the map generator for normal maps, it looks like only pasture resources in the capital can start side-by-side. After that, no other resources can spawn side-by-side (other than the obvious happy resources like dye, sugar, furs, whatever, but that's obvious). You never see two coals side-by-side, nor two uraniums.

 

[Olodune]

Looks reasonably promising so far. IME, Sitting Bull expands well and is a bit of a unit spammer. If you can avoid a pre-renaissance war his land should be ripe for invasion later in the game. Your experience with Liz matches well with my own.

I'll also echo the "settle to the south" voices. The wine city will be great but is a little slow to set up (needing a border expansion + 2 workboats), so is better to settle with the 3rd or 4th settler depending on how much southern land you can block.

Edit: Nice job including as much detail into your walkthrough as you did

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Sitting Cow spams unit at monty levels, but is very peaceful (nowarprob of 80 at cautious, 100 for pleased/friendly). Very hard to attack, very easy to get along with and very easy to channel warmongers away from the human towards him.

Dirk is correct about liz and generally any of the FR-favorite civic AIs will favor the lib path (along with some others). I'm not sure if access to Paya re-routes them or not, sure as hell doesn't feel like it.

Liz can technically declare at pleased IIRC but I've not seen it in many, many games.

 

[Silu]

Sitting Cow spams unit at monty levels, but is very peaceful (nowarprob of 80 at cautious, 100 for pleased/friendly). Very hard to attack, very easy to get along with and very easy to channel warmongers away from the human towards him.

He's actually 50/90/100/100, effectively making him act like one attitude notch up than an average leader. More likely to peaceprob out of a war at Cautious than many are at Pleased, and same for Annoyed vs other Civs at Cautious.

Somehow he still manages to be a with his insane defense units and espionage tactics.

 

[Aoxomoxoa]

In my shadow I had a nonstop rotation of 4 spies in Sitting Bull lands. In my first deity it's going pretty well, but I'm using tactics that I've never had to before. Fun so far and in good shape, just waiting for the thread to catch up.

 

[Duckweed]

@Dirk & DMOC

My consideration of the 2nd city is good site > blocking value since I'm rather being small but backward. The wine site is also an excellent site for worker/settler pumping. There's no immediate good site south and it looks like jungles there so can be delayed somehow.