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Do US Republicans want a failed state?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aelf, May 6, 2020.

  1. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    I'm not either. I live in Canada. But I'm a Humanist, and believe that the human condition and human living standards as a whole should be brought up to better levels, and nationalistic, parochial, ideological and partisan purist, and demographic-based thinking - regardless of which nation - or aspired or proposed nation - region, ideology, political party, or demographic - usually end up just being toxic viewpoints that divide people, cause certain people to bring others down in the world, and cause people to dehumanize and commit atrocities against other types of people.
     
  2. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    I'ma cynic. You never get disappointed.
     
  3. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    But you disappoint others a lot...
     
  4. amadeus

    amadeus Kaicho

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    No; a failed state to me is one incapable of carrying out the functions it defines as necessary regardless of scope.

    The absence of one social welfare policy or another does not make a failed state.

    Simply put, Sweden and Singapore have vastly different ideas on social welfare—different from that of the U.S.—and none of the three are failed states.
     
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  5. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    Wife's used to it.

    "I drunk to much"
    "It's not you it's me"
    "I've got a headache"

    Etc.

    I held her hand once in 2015. What more does she want?
     
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  6. Patine

    Patine Deity

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    You're a veritable Fabio there, @Zardnaar... :undecide:
     
  7. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

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    This is an interesting post. I think you've done a fair job of describing the primary motivator for a lot of Republican voters, but I'm not sure I'd define them so much as "single issue voters" as "a single issue won't derail them voters."
     
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  8. Zardnaar

    Zardnaar Deity

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    20th anniversary this year. To be fair.

    1. We don't have an anniversary. Just kinda happened there was no specific date.

    2. We don't do Valentine's day.

    3. Next bunch of roses I give her will be a first.

    I'ma housetrained though. Cook,clean,roll overetc.
     
  9. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    I just want to be left alone...
     
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  10. haroon

    haroon Deity

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    I'm sorry if my humor makes you uncomfortable, I got no ill intention. Actually you and Patine struggling the same things in essence, what I see here is only a disagreement in method.
     
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  11. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Deity

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    I think I see it as a failed state because it has no interest in serving its function to protect or promote its actual citizen's welfare whatsoever. Its become completely captured by corporate interests. Both sides, only one side is slightly better then the other. I view that as a failed state in a way. Also it no longer has complete control over its territory really as demonstrated by militia groups like the bundy's. . .
     
  12. amadeus

    amadeus Kaicho

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    1. I already addressed the degree to which social welfare is considered in defining a failed state.
    2. Your view of a failed state is different from mine, but I think mine is closer to a broadly-accepted definition when discussing what is a failed state and what isn't.
    3. That anecdote about the Bundy militia* doesn't in my eyes look at enough context. What are the pros and cons of having another Waco? As far as I understood the Bundy group were a largely harmless bunch of loons and dealing with them with the least violence necessary should be looked at as a positive, not a negative.
    Spoiler :
    Can I get a whoa Bundy?
     
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  13. Pangur Bán

    Pangur Bán Deconstructed

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    To a degree. The current Republican mix is an alliance of religious and nationalist conservatives with plutocrats. The plutocrats, who dominate, want the state not to block, and indeed to help, the acquisition of more and more wealth, really without limits. The nationalists/religious pleb-types want pretty much whatever the plutocrats tell them via their media and astroturf organisations, but includes a bunch of moral stuff and stuff about guns the plutocrats don't care about. They also want a big army to ensure that trade relations continue to be profitable, more profitable; the smart plutocrats also realise that if you destroy the state entirely someone like Putin will establish a godfathership of all the plutocrats and they'll be back to square one.
     
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  14. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Oh, the current situation in Singapore is very different from the US, and I'm not talking about "social welfare" at all.

    What about this, then?
     
  15. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Maybe I need to reiterate a point I made in my first post. It seems like Tim was the only one that caught it. The "if it makes me wealthy today IDGAF about tomorrow" people control all the power. They cynically use the other groups to stay in power. I'm not defending this group by saying they aren't bigoted. In fact I think they're worse than the bigots themselves. They themselves know better and still do gross things. IMO that makes them even more disgusting than the racists and bigots they manipulate to gain power.

    I used McConnell as an example not only because he has a Chinese wife but also because he was originally a pretty moderate Republican at the beginning of his career. Now he's packing the court with hard right, often fundamentalist judges to appease the bigots. He used this to appeal to his electorate. He's one of the most unpopular senators in their respective home states because of his economic policies but he's stayed in power because he pays attention to the people obsessed with culture war issues. Trying to overturn Roe v Wade and protecting bigots keeps him in power even if he doesn't give a flip about either of those things.

    Edit: oops I need to give Pangur Ban credit too. He's got it.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  16. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Let's try reframing it another way.

    Are there different ways of understanding 'want'? Is it possible to neither want nor not want something that you have chosen?

    If you say you do not want a particular outcome, but you knowingly create that outcome on the way to something else, is your initial statement valid?
     
  17. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

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    What outcome are you talking about, ultimately? That someone failed?

    Are you then expanding on that to say that the someone failed primarily because of an "ism?" and that but for someone else's benign neglect of that "ism," the other party would not have failed?
     
  18. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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  19. JPetroski

    JPetroski Deity

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    Are my questions troublesome to the narrative you're trying to drive?
     
  20. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

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    The thing that finally spurred the majority to kill was marching out away from population concentrations, token occupying something that was closed for the season, and... making an actual good point about the government misapplying terrorism statutes as they pertain to a situation where the government saw an opportunity to screw down pressure on land aquisition. Not really surprising for the standard American thug mentality.

    They're still mad tho. They wanted another WACO and they got mostly blue balled by the solitary corpse. That's only good for a couple jacks.
     

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