Do US Republicans want a failed state?

[Estebonrober]

1. I already addressed the degree to which social welfare is considered in defining a failed state.
2. Your view of a failed state is different from mine, but I think mine is closer to a broadly-accepted definition when discussing what is a failed state and what isn't.
3. That anecdote about the Bundy militia* doesn't in my eyes look at enough context. What are the pros and cons of having another Waco? As far as I understood the Bundy group were a largely harmless bunch of loons and dealing with them with the least violence necessary should be looked at as a positive, not a negative.

Spoiler :

Can I get a whoa Bundy?

welfare and protection go far more basic then Medicare and food stamps. Our government is failing at that as well.

You see random nuts I see an accelerating mania that is leading towards something more organized and far more hateful.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

What outcome are you talking about, ultimately? That someone failed?

Are you then expanding on that to say that the someone failed primarily because of an "ism?" and that but for someone else's benign neglect of that "ism," the other party would not have failed?

The outcome is that minorities suffer through republican policy, this isn't my interpretation either; this is historical fact.

In regards to the Militia; they should have been punished more thoroughly, but they're a bunch of white guys and as we know you can pretty much gun down certain groups in the middle of the street and get away with it in some states, as long as you're white and claim you did so in self-defense.

African-Americans have been shot to death by the police on the assumption that they might have a gun but these white adult babies can wave a rifle in their faces with impunity, now why would that be? What exactly is the difference between these two groups and why such a disparity in response? I believe one reason is that for decades The gop has actively handicapped if not outright prevented any attempt to deal with white militia groups, who conveniantly tend to lean conservative.

The gop has cultivated these nuts, they can claim they have no liability but they are inveterate liars and i wouldn't trust them to breathe properly.

 

[aelf]

Are my questions troublesome to the narrative you're trying to drive?

No, actually they're inane. So I won't bother with your posts until something better comes.

 

[Lexicus]

It doesn't really matter what people who vote for the Republicans want in their hearts. The functional outcome of the political action they take to advance whatever their particular interests are is clear.

 

[aelf]

It matters because they can hide behind their intentions. If it can be argued that they are being hypocritical, they are deprived of that defense.

 

[Farm Boy]

You see random nuts I see an accelerating mania that is leading towards something more organized and far more hateful.

Of course! I mean you can play around with the individual verbs and nouns, but the arguments usually remain fundamentally the same in approximately the same situation. Some are grosser than others, but that's truly a measure of impressiveness.

Spoiler :

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It doesn't really matter what people who vote for the Republicans want in their hearts. The functional outcome of the political action they take to advance whatever their particular interests are is clear.

The point is to obfuscate the functional result of their actions; it's a bad defense but it's also one of the only ones they can make.

If people vote for the gop, they do so knowing what that party's stance on minorities is and they do so regardless of the potential suffering their policies could do and im not convinced by @IglooDude's claim that they're either somehow ignorant of this or do so without specific hate in their heart, that's irrelevant and asinine; the end result is that minorities suffer and republican voters have to accept their culpability in that, that they are to blame as well, that they deserve a share of the blame and should be held to account.

That's why i don't care about decorum; it's nothing more than a figleaf for people to justify or getaway with some horrendous ****. The GOP and Republican voters have committed literal atrocities against minorities, either through actions (policy, voting) or just a complete disregard for their lives (see the aids crisis, the destruction of African-American communities by drugs, etc).

That's not to say the democrats also don't have blood on their hands; they do, but the GOP is an actively malicious institution and those that vote for it, if not defend those that vote for it, can't escape that taint.

 

[Hygro]

Amadeus votes GOP because they have threaded in them some of his political philosophy. FB does locally because like most places it’s a one party affair.

I don’t personally know Republicans who want a failed state. Many think they are protecting against the Democrats making this a failed state.

But the Republican Party in power clearly favors being the internationally rich and powerful with oceanic walls guarded by stealth jets and will weaken the populace and our sovereignty to personally be part of the club.

Once they have amassed their troves, they are more than happy to crash America, buy up all the federal wilderness and urban towers, and live a neo-plantation style life of opulence.

Power is the reason. Persecution is the reason. Torture is the reason. Etc

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm still curious where these Republican Christians of any political import are.

Known evangelicals in the Trump administration:

• Attorney General Jeff Sessions
• Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke
• Secretary of Health & Human Services Dr. Tom Price
• Secretary of Housing & Urban Development Dr. Ben Carson
• Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao
• Secretary of Energy Rick Perry
• Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos
• Director of the EPA Scott Pruitt
• U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley
• Senior Counselor for Economic Initiatives Dina Powell
• Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats
• Secretary of State Mike Pompeo
• VP Mike Pence

 

[IglooDame]

The point is to obfuscate the functional result of their actions; it's a bad defense but it's also one of the only ones they can make.

If people vote for the gop, they do so knowing what that party's stance on minorities is and they do so regardless of the potential suffering their policies could do and im not convinced by @IglooDude's claim that they're either somehow ignorant of this or do so without specific hate in their heart, that's irrelevant and asinine; the end result is that minorities suffer and republican voters have to accept their culpability in that, that they are to blame as well, that they deserve a share of the blame and should be held to account.

That's why i don't care about decorum; it's nothing more than a figleaf for people to justify or getaway with some horrendous ****. The GOP and Republican voters have committed literal atrocities against minorities, either through actions (policy, voting) or just a complete disregard for their lives (see the aids crisis, the destruction of African-American communities by drugs, etc).

That's not to say the democrats also don't have blood on their hands; they do, but the GOP is an actively malicious institution and those that vote for it, if not defend those that vote for it, can't escape that taint.

I'm not ignorant of anything. And I don't have hate in my heart. And I frequently vote Republican. QED, you are incorrect.

It really is as simple as that, and all your angry insults don't change it.

 

[Lexicus]

I'm not ignorant of anything. And I don't have hate in my heart. And I frequently vote Republican. QED, you are incorrect.

I don't believe you're omniscient concerning yourself. Indeed, your claim that you are not ignorant of anything is impossible to take seriously.

 

[aelf]

Amadeus votes GOP because they have threaded in them some of his political philosophy. FB does locally because like most places it’s a one party affair.

I don’t personally know Republicans who want a failed state. Many think they are protecting against the Democrats making this a failed state.

But the Republican Party in power clearly favors being the internationally rich and powerful with oceanic walls guarded by stealth jets and will weaken the populace and our sovereignty to personally be part of the club.

Once they have amassed their troves, they are more than happy to crash America, buy up all the federal wilderness and urban towers, and live a neo-plantation style life of opulence.

Power is the reason. Persecution is the reason. Torture is the reason. Etc

I was under the impression that local elections are different matter in the US and people often don't vote along party lines. Those are not an issue, then.

As for philosophical alignment, I still think that's quite problematic, and such voters need to really think about what outcomes they want to create.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I'm not ignorant of anything. And I don't have hate in my heart. And I frequently vote Republican. QED, you are incorrect.

It really is as simple as that, and all your angry insults don't change it.

Your votes, as well as others who vote for them, enable the GOP to do ghoulish things that result in measurable suffering and deaths, that's not my opinion that's demonstrable fact.

Why don't you take some responsibility, like your party is supposedly all about, and acknowledge your part in the ongoing suffering caused by them.

But just to repeat myself, you vote for a party that has condemned generations of the LGBTQ community to preventable suffering and death so i invite you, perhaps not for the first time, to take a step to the side and acknowledge your part in perpetuating this and if you can't do that then you shouldn't really expect anything less than naked hostility because you're not showing any contrition or desire to think about the ramifications of your actions.

But... if you want to sit there and claim that republican voters have no complicity wrt enabling some of the awful things their party has done, then i don't really see a point in this conversation continuing, I don't argue with people that deny basic reality. It's a matter of historical fact and reality that the GOP's actions, policies, agendas etc, have led to people dying that could have otherwise survived, had they perhaps not been LGBTQ or non-white.

 

[r16]

yes and no as a response to the thread title . Turkey was corrupt like hell already before New Turkey happened and nobody has a clear idea now . On the question of how many times did they revise the laws for contracts . Hundreds of times is the least minimum answer , because it used to be counted back in the day . Powerless state so that any misdemenours can not be investigated or even reported for the extremely unlikely case of leaving power and becoming not "in-power" so that any new Goverment would have any documents to add stuff and notice there were discrepancies . Collecting taxes to loot and yes , the act described in the previous sentence , well , that needs a functioning state ...

 

[Patine]

I just want to be left alone...

One would certainly never know that by your posts. That, in fact, is the problem, really, and why the plaintiff post I'm quoting always comes across as so insincere.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

One would certainly never know that by your posts. That, in fact, is the problem, really, and why the plaintiff post I'm quoting always comes across as so insincere.

What are you trying to say?

 

[Patine]

I don't believe you're omniscient concerning yourself. Indeed, your claim that you are not ignorant of anything is impossible to take seriously.

Your votes, as well as others who vote for them, enable the GOP to do ghoulish things that result in measurable suffering and deaths, that's not my opinion that's demonstrable fact.

Why don't you take some responsibility, like your party is supposedly all about, and acknowledge your part in the ongoing suffering caused by them.

But just to repeat myself, you vote for a party that has condemned generations of the LGBTQ community to preventable suffering and death so i invite you, perhaps not for the first time, to take a step to the side and acknowledge your part in perpetuating this and if you can't do that then you shouldn't really expect anything less than naked hostility because you're not showing any contrition or desire to think about the ramifications of your actions.

But... if you want to sit there and claim that republican voters have no complicity wrt enabling some of the awful things their party has done, then i don't really see a point in this conversation continuing, I don't argue with people that deny basic reality. It's a matter of historical fact and reality that the GOP's actions, policies, agendas etc, have led to people dying that could have otherwise survived, had they perhaps not been LGBTQ or non-white.

You two keep putting the onus on the voters, when it's actually the corrupt and rigged electoral system and already entrenched government apparatus - of BOTH Duopoly parties, that steal any meaningful and real choice at the ballot box. BOTH parties (with a few notable outliers from both, but not many) tend to universally support all of these bi-partisan agreement points of atrocity that are NEVER Presidential Election issues (because there's never meaningful dissent) that I listed upthread here:

But voting for EITHER major U.S. Duopoly Party enables military adventurism and war crimes abroad, support for a lop-sided and unfair justice system that overuses the death penalty (often unjustly) and allows Unconstitutional and illegal slave labour in privatized prisons, funding by embezzlement (effectively) of taxpayers' money to finance and run the world's biggest terrorist organization (the CIA) and secret police agencies (the NSA, CSC, DHS, and FBI) - including Unconstitutional surveillance and powers of arbitrary arrest, unlimited detainment, and denying of Miranda rights (as well as torture and such) just by labelling the crime a "terrorist," crime on suspicion, as well as funding horrid bloody-handed human-rights abusing regimes and terrorist group and insurgent militias, the rigged and corrupt electoral system that denies voters true choice and keeps the Duopoly in power, and kowtowing to big plutocratic corporatist masters and their will over their own constituents and give them the power to run roughshod over their employees and consumers, and skirt regulations and taxes in many ways. So, frankly, any American voter who was voting with true conscience, a moral edge, and a care for human rights, justice, and any semblance of decency would vote Third Party or Independent EVERY ELECTION!

Many voters who end up voting for the GOP might actually be persuaded to vote for a more productive and much less harmful party if they had true choice and the vote wasn't to be wasted. In fact, it would really be nice if Democratic voters were able to non-Establishment Democrats unlike like the recent choices of the Clintons, Gore (as of his run in 2000, not his political views much later), Kerry, Biden, and even Obama, without it being a "wasted vote," by the rigged system. Do you two hold voters in Zimbabwe responsible every time ZANU-PF wins an election, or Russian voters every time United Russia wins an election, as well? It's the system, not the voters, at the core of things, in this regard.

 

[Patine]

What are you trying to say?

If you REALLY have to ask, you cannot or will not read your own posts as they come across so blatantly to others. Some who constantly makes incendiary comments and even personal attacks, a fair number of which are unbidden and not in response to comments directed at them, can hardly claim with any sincerity or honesty they really want to be left alone.

 

[Patine]

Known evangelicals in the Trump administration:

• Attorney General Jeff Sessions
• Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke
• Secretary of Health & Human Services Dr. Tom Price
• Secretary of Housing & Urban Development Dr. Ben Carson
• Secretary of Transportation Elaine Chao
• Secretary of Energy Rick Perry
• Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos
• Director of the EPA Scott Pruitt
• U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley
• Senior Counselor for Economic Initiatives Dina Powell
• Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats
• Secretary of State Mike Pompeo

Not a single doctrinally, practicing (and living the religion) Christian in that list. Just "wolves in sheep's clothing," one and all.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Not a single doctrinally, practicing (and living the religion) Christian in that list. Just "wolves in sheep's clothing," one and all.

First you post:

I'm still curious where these Republican Christians of any political import are.

and then when you get your list, you immediately decide that "Republican Christians" has a special, previously unstated, meaning that no one can live up anyway.

Nonetheless those on my list have stated evangelical beliefs that are influencing policy and law. You asked for a list of politically important Republican Christians. I posted one. So now you try to move the goal posts by redefining "Republican Christians" to protect you "being right".

Pence qualifies too and needs to be on the list.