Berzerker
Deity
But what would happen to these left wing circle jerks if the libertarian state succeeded while the rest of the union suffered from the loss of smart business people?
Do you support a Libertarian Utopia?
- Thread starter Mark1031
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ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
They'd be flying their pigs off into the sunset.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
You guys can have the businessmen. We'll keep the scientists, doctors, engineers and workers, thankyouverymuch.
I love how businessmen are "producers," as if everyone else owes their existence to them. Oh, Atlas: shrug harder you crazy god, you.
Berzerker
Deity
oh yeah, like smart business people dont employ them
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
I don't understand what this is supposed to mean.
They are not the sole producers of wealth (though I can't imagine anyone being as myopic as to suggest such a thing) but businessmen have a useful function in the economy.
Berzerker
Deity
Now you can
Murky
Deity
Of course business people have a purpose. Who said they didn't?
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Yes. It just happens to be the total inversion of this one.
That supposes that all utopia begin with the same philosophical premises, which is very much not the case. You can't simply say "everyone is super-happy all the time" without some more basic conception of happiness; Plato's republic was very different than Zeno's republic, for example.Why would anyone not support any type of utopia?
We'll change henceforth the old tradition, and spurn the dust to win the prize?
Yes, I support the Libertarian Utopia. Quite a bit, actually.
The world isn't ready yet, though. And we're not going to get the world ready 'faster' by making the current system increasingly libertarian. You actually need a proper base of competence and ability among the populace before the libertarian ideal can be realised.
One of the main hurdles is the current cost of Justice. Justice is still very expensive, and much, much too expensive to thrust upon poor or illiterate people. The amount of computing power would have to be much higher than it is today, as well as the ability to collect and examine information.
So, I support it. I think the libertarians are entirely wrong with how to get there, though.
The world isn't ready yet, though. And we're not going to get the world ready 'faster' by making the current system increasingly libertarian. You actually need a proper base of competence and ability among the populace before the libertarian ideal can be realised.
One of the main hurdles is the current cost of Justice. Justice is still very expensive, and much, much too expensive to thrust upon poor or illiterate people. The amount of computing power would have to be much higher than it is today, as well as the ability to collect and examine information.
So, I support it. I think the libertarians are entirely wrong with how to get there, though.
CELTICEMPIRE
Zulu Conqueror
I support Libertarian ideals, but am not a producer, and the job I plan on getting will not involve production, but is still important to society.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
I don't even know what a "producer" is.
Murky
Deity
In Ayn Rand's fiction there are producers and parasites. Producers make the products that make money and the parasites live off of government welfare.
Lord of Elves
Suede-Denim Secret Police
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Thankfully only Rand/her readers missed the complete irony of presupposing that one could exist without the other.
I wonder who will buy all the "producers'" goods when they move to form their own nation
Is there any such thing? Regulating banks is "aggression" against taxpayers and banks. Not regulating banks is "aggression" against literally everyone else.
So explain to me how "non aggression" is possible.
It wouldn't succeed. There's literally no chance.
To the OP, how is it a utopia when the predators are free to do anything and the prey are prohibited from protecting themselves?
CELTICEMPIRE
Zulu Conqueror
Are intellectuals parasites?
Murky
Deity
To an Objectivists (which I'm not) anyone who receives money from the government without working for it is a parasite. They view it as theft to tax the rich in order to provide services to the poor. I'm not really sure how they feel about researchers who are paid with government funding but I suspect they probably want to privatize all research.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Oh, I know the sort of people who are identified as "producers", yeah, I just don't know what that actually means. Like knowing that the sun is a glowing thing in the sky, but having no idea that it's a giant ball of flaming hydrogen, if you follow me.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Objectivists are not anarchists; Objectivists want a "voluntary" state, i.e. one that survives only on donations. Objectivists believe the only legitimate functions of the state are the police, courts, and armed services.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Beyond that, there is a deeply authoritarian current running through Objectivist thought. Their opposition to the state is, in essence, that it gets in the way of the great Promethean elite subsuming society to their will as effectively as they otherwise would, which even the most capitalistic of anarchist-capitalists would find a little stomach-churning. Its intersection with right-libertarianism is largely superficial, sharing more in policy than principle- although that isn't helped by the frequent, misleading self-identification as "libertarian" by small-government "paleo"conservatives of the Paulite variety, who generally share something of Rand's elitism.
