DoC 1.18 Civilizations

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Thanks for your insights, Orbii.

Your strategy (gold economy with UB, a lot of cities early, doing UHV3 before the Russian spawn) is totally different to mine. I will definitely try it out!

What exactly do you mean with "burner cities"? Outposts in the SE and E that lure barbarians? As I wrote I never had enough barbs to get near 20.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Way back in winter we had a guy proposing Kievan Rus also represent Novgorod (which it kinda does with UHV 3) and have Muscovy's spawn delayed until the mid 15th century. Given how Muscovy's spawn guts Rus (or at least it did a dozen or so Git updates ago) in the mid 13th century making UHV 3 require a military reconquest of Muscovy, I wonder if he was onto something?

The UHV could theoretically be reached by finishing UHV 3 before the Russians spawn (as Orbii did, kind of historic way) or by succesfully competing with the Russians (and becoming the east slavic power instead of Russia). Depending on where they settle you may not have to completly conquer them. Maybe doable. (That they get Minks at spawn is hard, you should avoid settling in their spawn area which is sadly your core or better they shouldnot spawn in Rus core).

The Mongols never attacked me in the 4-5 runs I made (till the Russian spawn at least, stopped playing after failing UHV 2).

If UHV 2 should represent the defense against Mongols, it should count defeated barbs and mongol units. And the Mongols should be more aggressive against Rus.

 

[Orbii]

Thanks for your insights, Orbii.

Your strategy (gold economy with UB, a lot of cities early, doing UHV3 before the Russian spawn) is totally different to mine. I will definitely try it out!

What exactly do you mean with "burner cities"? Outposts in the SE and E that lure barbarians? As I wrote I never had enough barbs to get near 20.

I should have explained my term --- I used "burner cities" to mean the crummy cities settled just for the UHV 3 resources. They're cities that do basically one thing and are useless otherwise (in this case, secure the UHV 3 resources and build a UB). I adapted it from the 'burner phone' term.

Taking this time to add on some screenshots of my city layout and my UHV completion times (this was my last save before the game finished: you can see the last Fur being worked on in the first screenshot).

Spoiler :

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Another run for the Rus UHV - inspired by Orbii's game - going for the 3rd UHV (4 fur and 3 salt) before the Russians spawn in turn 67.

General strategy:

Settled Lubny, Oskol and Minsk and set tech-slider to 0% getting a lot of gold for hurrying military units (with citizenship). Lubny build Barracks, Druzhina, Arean and missionaries, Oskol Barracks and Druzhina and Arena, Minsk Workers and Settlers.


Result:

Sadly missed UHV 1 this time by 3 points, but could be done with better play (and a bit more luck, event destroyed the pastures in Minsk).

UHV 2 was done in 1120 AD long before the deadline. Got totally swarmed by barbarian Horse Archers, Oghuz and some Keshiks this time. Waaay more then before. Mongols declared war on sight, but did not really attack.

UHV 3 I missed by some turns. Workers still bulding the last fur and salt improvements. Settling Novgorod/Spas-na-Kholmu instead of Oskul is probably better.


Observations:

The Unique Building is too insignificant, I think. It's only +1 commerce even with merchant trade in popolus cities. You can invest your hammers better. -> I like the theme of the UB, but it needs a better bonus +100 % trade (at least), free merchant, free food or hammers, automatic spread of your state religion...something. ;-)

UHV 2:
Seems a bit luck dependent. If they don't come in hordes it may be impossible to find enough barbs. And if they swarm you, you have to kill them anyways. So perhaps there is something more interesting... (not sure what).

UHV 3:
Getting 200 gold through trade is trivial - it just happens. ;-)
The 4th fur is hard, you have to go really far to the east or to Scandinavia (or trade it with the Norse if they trade).


Minsk (in Ruthenia) should not defect to the Russians (at least from the perspective of a Rus game). Make them spawn only in Russia or east of Russia, not in Ruthenia. If the Russians are too weak then, give them another settler or more units.


Will give it another try to go for the UHV before the Russians spawn and then try in another game the long run with conquering them for UHV3.

I really like the Rus scenario for UHV1 and 3 and the possibility to do them in various ways - so thanks againto Leoreth for his superb work.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Made another try yesterday and wrote a guide how to get the UHV.

You can find it here https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/rus-uhv-1-18-doing-uhv3-before-the-russians-spawn.699339/

 

[Leoreth]

Would it help if the second UHV included Mongol units?

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

Probably not. Have not killed a mongolian unit in any of my games so far. Got declared war by Mongols before turn 65 only once and nobody attacked.

As I said the amount of barbs ist totally different. What is the reason for this? Just spawning propability or developments in other parts of the map (Turks?)?

 

[Leoreth]

Yeah, it is not predictable where barbarians decide to go, whether they lose battles elsewhere on the map etc.

 

[Bernd-das-Brot]

In my latest (and probably last Rus game for now) I had again more then enough barbs - 11 Keshiks, Oghuz, Horse Archers in one turn (Keshik in the south and Horse Archer on the hill are 4 units each).

And even this guy all the way from Tibet!

 

[banzay13]

Usually i go for Kazan and if you go to Arabia - some Turic Oghuz also can be find there, and 1-2 Komi longbows

 

[SultanRedSnake]

Some snap shots of first autplay of with new Civics.

900AD

1200AD

1400AD

1600AD

Note: Civics with 0 users are not listed. E.g. poor Elective totally died.

Personal Remark: I *can* say that egregious goof-ball selections were minimal in instance and impact. E.g. Italy has had a thing for Caste System, Abolitionist Congo, minors. Otherwise yous might agree we have some tuning to do.

This isn't new to latest version but Philip's Spain has shown a pattern of favoring Despotism if and after New World conquests with unsurprisingly horrendous stability effects.

Oh best of all! The Ottomans have finally understood their assignment and kept it nice and Syncretic. Hehe also that bug totally made me think of Nuclear Gandhi.

My Take:

• Elective hasn't ever been popular in 1.18x but I think now the case can definitely be made for a daring buff.
• I *personally* was a fan of Theocracy's +2 but I can't make a strong objective case now.
• Rando Idea for Colonialism: Replace Naval XP bonus with Free Navigation I promotion? Yes it collides with Spain's UP but I've been a long-time opponent of that anyway sooo lez change that too!
• Republic has been an enigma. It's objectively strong even but the AI isn't seeing these merits?

P.S. - For those curious, this is taken from the Info Screen in WB.

 

[AOS9001]

Rando Idea for Colonialism: Replace Naval XP bonus with Free Navigation I promotion? Yes it collides with Spain's UP but I've been a long-time opponent of that anyway sooo lez change that too!

The Power of the Siesta: +1 happiness for every tile not worked
The Power of Audacity: Great Generals attached to units can convince New World civilizations to let them enter their capitals unopposed
The Power of Delusions of Grandeur: This civilization can still be invited to congresses even after dropping significantly in score
The Power of Potosi Silver: 500% inflation modifier for this civilization
The Power of Spanish Fury: There is a chance your units will sack a city no matter what option your choose on city conquest

Though in all seriousness, Spain's power from RFC: Europe is a simple but thematic one to the civilization.

 

[Dracosolon]

Something to boost Priest specialists, perhaps? Spain starts the game with a lot of contested tiles so extra yield is welcome, and it rewards you for spreading your religion to your underdeveloped colonies+getting Great Prophet for Great Missions.

 

[KMRblue1027]

It's shocking how low the AI seems to like Republic. I think it's objectively better then monarchy until your fairly big and many nations stay small for much of the early game. Despotism for whipping is also good but I've never been a fan of pop sac strats in games like these so I run Republic in like 80% of games for most of the medieval period at least.

 

[Dracosolon]

Maybe it overvalues the loss from land improvements?

 

[Leoreth]

Though in all seriousness, Spain's power from RFC: Europe is a simple but thematic one to the civilization.

What is it?

 

[Dracosolon]

What is it?

Less negative stability from religious persecution and +2 in all cities.

 

[AOS9001]

DoC doesn't have the same stability system as RFC: Europe, but the bonus is useful in RFC:E and it would be in DoC too. Using spies to influence state religion is a great way of avoiding an expensive armada going to England or Sweden.

 

[SultanRedSnake]

The Power of Marrying Up

 

[Dracosolon]

Free Great General when pillaging a Windmill.